North County Thresher

[Kayak_Bernie]

Originally Posted by yemff

People like you will defend government regulation until fishing is completely closed to everyone. If you think agencies like the epa are about anything but money and power you're really out of touch.

People like me... You mean a Wetland Ecologist, with a double masters degree in Bio-toxicology and Wetland Plant Ecology. You mean people who have fought tooth and nail with giant oil companies to help clean up a spill and restore function to 38 miles of prime fishing river. Or do you mean people who have stood up at CCC meetings in Oregon and defended our right as anglers to fish over the rights of commercial gill netters. Sorry to say friend , but if YOU think that I am out of touch because clean air and clean water are important to me, then sir, I am sure that I do NOT want to be in touch with whatever reality you are living in...

I am a scientist, I always look at things through a different lens than most I suppose, but if you think that our ecosystems were in better shape back before the EPA, NOAA, NASA, USGS, USFS, USFWS. I'd like to see ANY peer reviewed, scholarly article that refutes that position. The regulatory agencies aren't always right, they aren't always wrong, but I know that through policies enacted by these agencies we have saved endangered animals, plants, and ecosystems that would have long ago been lost without those policies.

We take for granted our clean water comes out of the tap, or it's safe for our kid with asthma can go outside the and wait for the school bus without a mask. Spend some time in a third world country, Shoot go down the the TJ river and take a good look around and tell me we are worse off here.

[NICKWORN]

Originally Posted by Kayak_Bernie

People like me... You mean a Wetland Ecologist, with a double masters degree in Bio-toxicology and Wetland Plant Ecology. You mean people who have fought tooth and nail with giant oil companies to help clean up a spill and restore function to 38 miles of prime fishing river. Or do you mean people who have stood up at CCC meetings in Oregon and defended our right as anglers to fish over the rights of commercial gill netters. Sorry to say friend , but if YOU think that I am out of touch because clean air and clean water are important to me, then sir, I am sure that I do NOT want to be in touch with whatever reality you are living in...

I am a scientist, I always look at things through a different lens than most I suppose, but if you think that our ecosystems were in better shape back before the EPA, NOAA, NASA, USGS, USFS, USFWS. I'd like to see ANY peer reviewed, scholarly article that refutes that position. The regulatory agencies aren't always right, they aren't always wrong, but I know that through policies enacted by these agencies we have saved endangered animals, plants, and ecosystems that would have long ago been lost without those policies.

We take for granted our clean water comes out of the tap, or it's safe for our kid with asthma can go outside the and wait for the school bus without a mask. Spend some time in a third world country, Shoot go down the the TJ river and take a good look around and tell me we are worse off here.

Well said SIR!!!!!!! I think you put him in his place on that response!:lu xhello:

[onetriphudson]

I had an older guy recently stop me as I was hauling my gear back to my truck, and he was asking where I fished. When I pointed out to the ocean behind him, he told me that area was closed to fishing. Then I explained that the other boats out on the water in front of us were sport fishing boats and that the area closed was further to the south. He still wanted to argue and explained that he was a surf fisherman and I should be careful not to get in trouble. Again, I explained politely that the closed area was from Moonlight to Table Tops and he made a face like he didn't even know the beach names.

In my opinion the MLPA gives much needed rest to small areas, but also scares away fools like this who otherwise can't work a map or computer to get the correct information. They end up not fishing at all.

[YakDout]

Originally Posted by onetriphudson

I had an older guy recently stop me as I was hauling my gear back to my truck, and he was asking where I fished. When I pointed out to the ocean behind him, he told me that area was closed to fishing. Then I explained that the other boats out on the water in front of us were sport fishing boats and that the area closed was further to the south. He still wanted to argue and explained that he was a surf fisherman and I should be careful not to get in trouble. Again, I explained politely that the closed area was from Moonlight to Table Tops and he made a face like he didn't even know the beach names.



In my opinion the MLPA gives much needed rest to small areas, but also scares away fools like this who otherwise can't work a map or computer to get the correct information. They end up not fishing at all.

the swamis state marine conservation area, which you are speaking of, is closed to any fishing except from shore. Which is probably why a surf fisherman tried to tell you that you couldn't fish there. Because as a surf fisherman he is still allowed to. Spear fishing for pelagic fish is also allowed.

[surfisher]

Originally Posted by YakDout

the swamis state marine conservation area, which you are speaking of, is closed to any fishing except from shore. Which is probably why a surf fisherman tried to tell you that you couldn't fish there. Because as a surf fisherman he is still allowed to. Spear fishing for pelagic fish is also allowed.

Spear fishing for WSB is also allowed ...

[stairman]

Originally Posted by Kayak_Bernie

People like me... You mean a Wetland Ecologist, with a double masters degree in Bio-toxicology and Wetland Plant Ecology. You mean people who have fought tooth and nail with giant oil companies to help clean up a spill and restore function to 38 miles of prime fishing river. Or do you mean people who have stood up at CCC meetings in Oregon and defended our right as anglers to fish over the rights of commercial gill netters. Sorry to say friend , but if YOU think that I am out of touch because clean air and clean water are important to me, then sir, I am sure that I do NOT want to be in touch with whatever reality you are living in...

I am a scientist, I always look at things through a different lens than most I suppose, but if you think that our ecosystems were in better shape back before the EPA, NOAA, NASA, USGS, USFS, USFWS. I'd like to see ANY peer reviewed, scholarly article that refutes that position. The regulatory agencies aren't always right, they aren't always wrong, but I know that through policies enacted by these agencies we have saved endangered animals, plants, and ecosystems that would have long ago been lost without those policies.

We take for granted our clean water comes out of the tap, or it's safe for our kid with asthma can go outside the and wait for the school bus without a mask. Spend some time in a third world country, Shoot go down the the TJ river and take a good look around and tell me we are worse off here.

i meant people exactly like you that derive their total income from the continuation of every program that the government funds to take away the rights we have that are written in the state constitution...go look them up...

i bet you are about 32 years old...youy bought into the save the world attitude that your profeeeesors instilled in you and now even though you have a consumptive hobby like fishing and drive miles in a carbon producing vehicle to do it you plead holier then thou .The epa long ago ...before you were born.... cleaned up 97% of the pollution in this country...they because bureaucracies rthey only die when governments do and since they have found and fixed all the big sources of polluiton continue on down to smaller and smaller point sources that get ever more expensive to fix...and they like you don't give a rats ass what it does to the very same economy that allowed us to have the luxury of "concern for the environment",,,,if you and you cohorts continue to kill this vibrant california economy we will have to dump all concerns for the environment for survial.....the evidence of the faltering california economy is there so cash in your government job pension as soon as you can and go be a pain in the ass to some other state

[rdahl]

Originally Posted by stairman

i meant people exactly like you that derive their total income from the continuation of every program that the government funds to take away the rights we have that are written in the state constitution...go look them up...

i bet you are about 32 years old...youy bought into the save the world attitude that your profeeeesors instilled in you and now even though you have a consumptive hobby like fishing and drive miles in a carbon producing vehicle to do it you plead holier then thou .The epa long ago ...before you were born.... cleaned up 97% of the pollution in this country...they because bureaucracies rthey only die when governments do and since they have found and fixed all the big sources of polluiton continue on down to smaller and smaller point sources that get ever more expensive to fix...and they like you don't give a rats ass what it does to the very same economy that allowed us to have the luxury of "concern for the environment",,,,if you and you cohorts continue to kill this vibrant california economy we will have to dump all concerns for the environment for survial.....the evidence of the faltering california economy is there so cash in your government job pension as soon as you can and go be a pain in the ass to some other state

Stairman, stop. You are showing your ignorance.

[alanw]

Good time for the Team Sewer Popcorn 500™

[Kayak_Bernie]

Originally Posted by stairman

i meant people exactly like you that derive their total income from the continuation of every program that the government funds to take away the rights we have that are written in the state constitution...go look them up...

i bet you are about 32 years old...youy bought into the save the world attitude that your profeeeesors instilled in you and now even though you have a consumptive hobby like fishing and drive miles in a carbon producing vehicle to do it you plead holier then thou .The epa long ago ...before you were born.... cleaned up 97% of the pollution in this country...they because bureaucracies rthey only die when governments do and since they have found and fixed all the big sources of polluiton continue on down to smaller and smaller point sources that get ever more expensive to fix...and they like you don't give a rats ass what it does to the very same economy that allowed us to have the luxury of "concern for the environment",,,,if you and you cohorts continue to kill this vibrant california economy we will have to dump all concerns for the environment for survial.....the evidence of the faltering california economy is there so cash in your government job pension as soon as you can and go be a pain in the ass to some other state

First and foremost: I would like to apologize to DurtiCurti for unintentionally hijacking this thread.. Awesome Fish!! Sorry for the wacko on the beach.

Second in response to stairman: Ill go ahead and comment on each one of your asinine comments.
Thanks for the guess, but I'm 38,
My Professors instilled in me a desire for knowledge, the basics of scientific methods and the ability to ask questions and then thoroughly and robustly test and defend those questions.

I never said I am holier than thou ( although I did go to Catholic school) so I bet I am
I'm not better than anyone, I am just a regular guy who has weaknesses, flaws, strengths, and abilities. But, I have tangible evidence that I have made this world a better place to live, and that my contributions to this planet have had a observable benefit to ALL life on this planet, including your own.
I drive a big truck, and I fish, and hunt, and hike, and shoot my guns, and drink beer, just like many of the other folks in this forum, none of who use their choice of employment to offset these consumptive behaviors. We work to make a living to support our families and our hobbies. I love what I do, but at no point in my life did I decide to become an environmental scientist, to offset set any of these "comsumptive hobbies" I became a biologist because the natural world absolutely enthralls me, and I wanted to know how things work, I wanted to know why it is important for us to have environmental regulations. I wanted to know HOW our actions impact the other living things and ecosystems on this planet.

Sure Long AGO (1970) The E.P.A. was created, and they set about passing legislation such as the Clean Water and Air acts, and the Endangered Species Act, which have and CONTINUE to have lasting and measurable success. Saying that the EPA cleaned up 97% of the pollution in this country back in the day, so therefore it has served its purpose is like saying "we cured smallpox, so lets just throw away the vaccine, we'll never need that again" It makes no sense, as does the number 97% ( I'd like to know where you got that number from, remember I'm a scientist so I like proof!)

I could go into an expansive explanation about the how the environmental regulations are here to help the economy, ( but based on your tone and level of understanding) I'll spell it out in very simple terms... The environment and the economy are inexorably linked; clean water, clean air, wildlife all have value whether you choose to believe it or not. You cannot destroy the environment for economic gain, sure it may give you or your cohorts a few extra dollars but that gain comes at the cost of some other living thing. We need regulation so people like you don't fill our streams with chemicals, and our air with smog. As humans ( myself included) we consume, and we continue to consume until we exhaust all of our resources and then we go on to the next thing. That is not a way to live, sure it works in the short term but if you think that there aren't consequences to these consumptive activities you are gravely mistaken. Meanwhile while you bitch about how the government doesn't allow you to fill in your little creek ( or whatever your beef with the EPA is) I am out there on the front lines making sure that your kids, and grand-kids, and my family and future generations have a place to go fish and a place to hunt.

As far as your statement about how environmental regulations are killing this state... I refuse to acknowledge that because California is the 6th largest Economy in the WORLD ahead of entire countries France, Italy, India, and Brazil. I think that we are doing just fine. Maybe not the turd farming sector that you apparently are involved with, but we are doing just fine. Just like the steam engine was once the pinnacle of technology, things change and those who refuse to change are going to be left gathering dust is some museum ( or in your case I assume a small dimly lit hovel)

I am not going to take my ass to another state, I like this one just fine...and I will continue to be a scientist, continue to volunteer my time with wounded veterans, and continue to win over the hearts and minds of today's impressionable youth with my pro-environment propaganda, so they can live in world that is better than the world I am growing up in.

Also know this , I vote... and all of my friends and family vote and we vote for the future of our environmental even if it temporarily inconveniences turd farmers such as yourself...

So since you were so adept at describing me let me take a stab at describing you: You are 62, depend on some sort of government assistance, you hate immigrants, and anyone else who doesn't share the exact same belief system, you want to make America Great Again, ( which begs the question, when exactly should we go back to? when was America sooo Great, that you cant wait to get back there???) News flash, America is Great!! America will continue to be great.

If you would like to continue this conversation please feel free to come down to Tidelands Park August 13th and volunteer for Heroes on the Water, maybe you can start to make America great by helping those who have sacrificed so much to make our country what it is... The greatest country in the world.

[Dirty Curti]

Thanks guys for keeping my post in the forefront but this has gotten way off topic. So even though I enjoyed seeing my post revived let's just end it here and hopefully I can post a new fish topic to generate this kind of enthusiasm next week.

Tight Lines Everyone. See you on the water!

[stairman]

no it's like saying we cured small pox and now lets spend just as much money time and effort regardless of the cost to solve ingrown hairs....nice try though

yes california is a vibrant economy ....but it won't be for long and it isn't what it used to be....it took some of the socialist countries of europe 40 years to realize that and they are trying to back pedal but the damage is done.

nope 56 self employed and have been for 20 of the last 25 years. I paid my way through 3 years of college working 30+ hours a week and got a's in every science class I ever took in college,whic included geology for four semesters,meterology for two,chemistry for four,astronomy,biology, physiology ,botany ,oceanography and of course political science and economics until life got in the way and I had a family to support....so how long did your mom and dad pay for college to get two masters and why couldn't you find employment that kept you too busy to get the second?

oh and btw I have never cashed a government issued check in my life other then a excess tax return check....I bet you can't say the same

[ful-rac]

OOooooh politics!!!

Tell me more! !

[Kayak_Bernie]

Originally Posted by stairman

no it's like saying we cured small pox and now lets spend just as much money time and effort regardless of the cost to solve ingrown hairs....nice try though

yes california is a vibrant economy ....but it won't be for long and it isn't what it used to be....it took some of the socialist countries of europe 40 years to realize that and they are trying to back pedal but the damage is done.

nope 56 self employed and have been for 20 of the last 25 years. I paid my way through 3 years of college working 30+ hours a week and got a's in every science class I ever took in college,whic included geology for four semesters,meterology for two,chemistry for four,astronomy,biology, physiology ,botany ,oceanography and of course political science and economics until life got in the way and I had a family to support....so how long did your mom and dad pay for college to get two masters and why couldn't you find employment that kept you too busy to get the second?

oh and btw I have never cashed a government issued check in my life other then a excess tax return check....I bet you can't say the same

Quick response just because I hate leaving loose ends.

incorrect analogy, because ingrown hairs cant kill you, its like sunscreen to prevent skin cancer, little exposures that add up to large and malignant problems.


We used to be 8th largest economy, now we are 6th (sounds like the right direction to me)

So only government check I ever cashed was tax returns...No student loans

I played football in college and I was on 1/2 football scholarship 1/2 academic scholarship. So mom and dad never paid a dime for that, blood, sweat, tears, and studying paid for my education.

For Biology grad school if you are accepted, the university waives tuition and you work as a graduate assistant in undergrad courses.
I did both of my masters degrees simultaneously, lots of extra work but it was worth it. Oh yeah I worked as lab assistant and waiter during grad school to make ends meet after a full load of classes, and teaching labs...


Well its been great chatting with you, but even I tire of banging my head against a brick wall eventually. I hope that you can come help volunteer with Heroes on the Water. 8/13/16 Tidelands Park 6:45am be there, or be square

[HobieOneCanoebe]

hah wow that got out of hand who's going fishing tomorrow