Big threshers?

[Pat]

Actually I do know what I'm talking about,

Based on what?

So what, you went out in a WFO t-shark bite in Apr/May '07 off Laguna Canyon and caught a few just like every one else.

Anybody thats anybody in fishing knows your a legend in your own mind.

[dorado50]

I'm a nobody and prefer it that way but I do know a few "legends in their own minds" and it ain't fun!

[lowprofile]

well this was fun.

i have a few set ups and a couple days on the books. i think ill see what i can pull off.

[RK]

PAT IS THE MAN!

case closed.


(lock it up Adi)

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by RK

PAT IS THE MAN!

case closed.


(lock it up Adi)

Indeed... I'm just glad he didn't say the world was flat, or the universe revolves around us.

Yep the TLD15 is the ultimate Big Game tool, can kill anything in the ocean and all those guys with Gold Reels and God forbid two speeds are just throwing good money away for nothing.

[bus kid]

where did the BOTD section go? oh wait sorry wrong website....
thanks to Jim and Jim for the insight.

[lowprofile]

btw, good luck finding these guys on the yak. i went out several times in "prime" locations at the "right time" and got nothing... might have needed to fish my baits more towards the bottom than the mid and upper water column though. but 280ft seems kinda deep for a mackerel. lol

[monkeyfishturds]

With La Nina in the rear view mirror, I hope there is a better showing of threshers along the coast this spring. If bigger models show up like in 06', I'll put away my zebco plastic spool and beef up my gear.

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by monkeyfishturds

I'll put away my zebco plastic spool and......

Thanks for all that intelligent info

Actually you have my sincere thanks Mike for resurrecting this thread.

What a difference a year makes.

In the last year I've learned a lot more about Pat as a person and his fishing abilities. I have no doubt he could teach me a thing or two when it comes to fishing Iron, and certainly about La Jolla in general. You know how it is sometimes you just get off on the wrong foot, and with all the trolls, stalkers and other nut cases on the web it's sometimes hard to tell exactly who you are dealing with when you've never met someone before. Not only do I not have any hard feelings towards him but honestly respect the man, and unfortunately I can't say that about everyone.

In that light I went through and edited some of my posts in this thread. I'm not going to say graphite bodied TLDs are appropriate tackle for adult thresher sharks because they certainly are not made for Big Game but I did take the time to go back and remove some of the stuff where I was giving Pat a hard time.

As to Adult T Sharks.... Well they have come through every year since I've been fishing here with the majority of the big ones always showing up in May. This year if I'm here I will target them and my goal is to put a full sized adult over three hundred on my smaller skiff fishing solo. A personal best would be icing on the cake, and if I don't get one it sure as hell will be fun trying, which is kind of the whole point anyway.

Tight lines and good fishing to you all, Jim

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by monkeyfishturds

I hope there is a better showing of threshers along the coast this spring. I don't know about offshore at 100 fathoms, but in 10 to 20 fathoms i've only seen 6 to 8 foot threshers caught in recent years. In 2006, i saw 10 to 12 foot sharks caught.

I guess it depends on what you mean by big, or adult. You might see some of the larger sub adult fish in Malibu. It's unlikely but possible. Most people think a 10 to 12 foot T shark is an Adult, but they are still sub adult Threshers.

It's really all about the migration patterns.

The larger adults migrate through offshore, heading up the coast around Point Conception and then North up to Oregon and beyond. The smaller, and younger pups migrate inshore moving slower, bunching up in large groups, sometimes stopping for extended periods. Everyone pretty much knows that but now I'm going to tell you something you probably don't know. I think the vast majority of smaller juvenile sharks never leave the So. Cal bite and stay in the warmer waters south of Point Conception.

T sharks are endothermic, meaning they are warm blooded. Water conducts heat away from your body with relentless efficiency much faster then air, so in order to keep their body temperature up T sharks have to eat a lot of food. The colder the water the more they have to eat to stay warm.

Earlier in the thread I talked about how strong adult threshers are. Pretty much everyone who's fished for them or studied them agrees that these sharks once the mature are the supreme athletes of the shark world. They might not be as fast as a Mako but pound for pound they outfight all the other sharks and are comparable in strength to the greatest fighters of the sea swordfish and giant bluefin tuna. Something happens with their biology when they go through puberty and suddenly the are the biggest badass of the sea. It's almost like they are a whole other species.

So why is that?

Why would a shark that feeds mainly on Sardines and Anchovies need to be that athletic? Why would an animals biology and behavior change so dramatically when it get's older. Natural selection doesn't select traits that are not needed, so why are these sharks so tough in adulthood.

Well I'd say it's about the migration. The adult T Sharks round point conception head north following the huge northern sub population sardine migration to their spawning grounds. They have to brave the cold waters of the California Current which runs against them, feed on the move but at the same time keep up with their peers. So unlike the pups which stay in one place for extended periods they are constantly on the move. The water temps are much colder then down here so they have to eat enough on the move to not only keep going but keep their body temperatures up in the colder water. It's kinda like spawning salmon running up a river, or better yet Tuna and Yellowtail. Yellows are tough fish but they can stay in one place, stop feeding, and just hang. Tuna are always on the move and have to eat to survive. It's a more demanding or harsher way for them to live so they have to be tougher and more athletic to survive.

The Pups can't do it they are simply not athletic enough to hunt down enough food to make the journey. So they stay down here in the So. Cal. bite where the water is ten to twenty degrees warmer and they feed on the Southern Sardine population which spawns local. It's actually a brilliant adaption. They both feed on the same things, but while the young ones live in the easier warmer environment and feed local, the adults are adapted to a long migration into a much harsher environment where they can feed aggressively without competing with their young for the same food source.

That's the key. It's about food and survival. That's why the pups have a different migration pattern then the adults, that's why the pups stay inshore and the Adults stay offshore, and that's why the Adults fight so much harder then the pups. They are simply tougher, because they are adapted to live in harsher conditions to survive.

Puberty is a bitch and it can be confusing. Sub adults like then ten and twelve footers your describing from Malibu are not yet true adults. From my experience Ts over 175 pounds generally migrate North with the adults. Then again I always run into them while fishing for adult T's. I have no doubt that the sub adult fish I've seen if left unmolested would of complete the full migration, but do to what I've read about their growth rate, I would guess it was the first attempt.

The Adult Migration pattern is actually pretty well known.

They come up the coast in groups, packs or waves, five, ten, twenty sometimes even hundreds fish traveling together, working bait concentrations on upwellings offshore in deep water. The 9 mile bank, deep water areas off La Jolla, Oceanside, Dana and Newport, all see adult fish every year.

After Newport they swing out to avoid the shallow flats in front of Pedro then cross the channel outside the rigs. They then work North past Catalina but the population splits with some of the Adult sharks working up the front side and some working up the back side.

Those that choose the backside route then head up passing SBI on the outside, circle outside around the channel islands and head up the coast to Oregon. We don't fish those sharks but the commercials get them and they are there at the same times every year.

The fish that go up inside of Catalina cross the 286, the boot, pass east of SBI, follow the inside edge of the ridge up past the hidden reef. They then have another split short of Anacapa like the one at Catalina where some of the sharks cross over the ridge and go around outside the channel islands then up the coast to Oregon, and some others stay inside and go up the channel inside of Cruz in front of Santa Barbara and then round Point conception and head up the coast as well.

None of this is written in stone and the Sharks always are responding to conditions but these patterns are predictable, they happen every year, and fisherman especially the commercials who target them use these patterns to plot their migration and catch them year after year.

All the guys I know that reliably fish adults in the LA area target them out between the boot and the hidden reef more then twenty miles offshore of Malibu. My largest was taken East of the boot closer to the 286, but it was still way offshore.

What I'm saying here is that Malibu is not like Newport. It's not normal stop on the Adult migration pattern, but some larger fish can end up there with the right chain of events. No-one can give you a definitive answer as to why, but I've thought about it a lot and I'll give you my take.

Like I said sub adults or sharks that are 175+ pounds travel with the adults but it's probably their first attempt at the migration. Some years we have really clean water and a ton of fin bait in the area inside the 286 between the 270 and the deep water in Redondo canyon. I think if the conditions are just right those sub adult fish can get distracted follow the bait in feeding on them and they essentially just loose the migration.

These are sharks that probably just the year before worked up the coast tight to shore, so the combination of clean deep water and lots of food is enough to get them off course.

I've seen ten to 12 ft T sharks on bait in Redondo Canyon, I know that occasionally they end up in there, and I think once they are in there they then get confused and don't know how to get back to the main body of the migration.

True Adults who've made the migration before are probably less likely to do this, but sub adults who have not fully adapted to the adult migration pattern might be susceptible and once in the Canyon they are separated from the majority of the migration and are then left to figure things out for themselves.

They have they instinct to continue North so the work North along the 100 fathom curve which puts them on a direct course for Malibu, but when they hit the shallows off Malibu they are caught on the wrong side of Point Dume and don't know where to go next.

Maybe they then mix in with Pups, or if there is a ton of bait in there they might come in tight to the beach to feed before they figure out how to circumvent Dume and continue on their migration. At any rate they sometimes end up in there and that's when you end up getting those larger Ts in Malibu, but it's not something that happens all the time as it's purely a product of a set of unique conditions.

So do true adults 350+ pound threshers come into Malibu beaches? Not normally, it could happen but it's extremely rare. I don't know of anyone whose caught a true adult T over 350 pounds close to the beach at Malibu.

Do some sub adult fish in the ten to twelve foot range come into the beach there? Yes they do occasionally but these fish are probably just lost and it's not part of the standard adult migration pattern.

Are they going to come in this year?

Well that's a good question, but pretty impossible to answer. It all depends on what the conditions are when they pass the 270, at least that would be my take but the truth is there is no way know, or to predict it. The only way to know those sharks are in Malibu is to run into them, that's because it's a random fluke and not part of the standard migration.

So that's my take on the subject Mike. Maybe a little more then you wanted.

Personally I love talking about sharks, looking at data plotting their migrations etc...
I can't wait for another year to go by, so you can bring this up again.

[TEAMFISH]

Originally Posted by bus kid

where did the BOTD section go? oh wait sorry wrong website....
thanks to Jim and Jim for the insight.

Beat me to it

[TJones]

getting to end of spool with something large on other end ?

So where would one that is basically new to fishing look to educate myself on some basic things i need to do to catch a thresher? Im not looking to catch a monster just get one on the hook and get experience with these things.

[TJones]

if you fish on a kayak long enough , eventually you will catch things you had no intention of. what a happens if you hook a smaller model with medium gear and he spools you ? how fast would you be towed around ? and how dangerous would it be ? granted you'r knot holds at the hub like it should .

[Fiskadoro]

Originally Posted by dorado50

I'm a nobody....!

LOL...believe it or not I know the feeling.

There are different kinds of legends. It's the online form, those that constantly hang out on boards sniping at others that are most irritating.

The True fishing legends I know don't hardly post anymore. I mean I love to fish and have put in a lot of time on the water but there are people who know a lot more then I. The Brackmans, Leevy, Mrass, Larry, Chugey, they all know more about T sharks then I do. I could name a whole other set for tuna.

They don't even post online for the most part because they don't want to deal with all the we nuts stalking them and trying to put them down.

Nothing as savage as some jealous idiot with a computer.

In hindsight I should of just let this thread go by and never said a damn thing.

Jim

[William Novotny]

Originally Posted by Jim Day

LOL...believe it or not I know the feeling.

There are different kinds of legends. It's the online form, those that constantly hang out on boards sniping at others that are most irritating.

The True fishing legends I know don't hardly post anymore. I mean I love to fish and have put in a lot of time on the water but there are people who know a lot more then I. The Brackmans, Leevy, Mrass, Larry, Chugey, they all know more about T sharks then I do. I could name a whole other set for tuna.

They don't even post online for the most part because they don't want to deal with all the we nuts stalking them and trying to put them down.

Nothing as savage as some jealous idiot with a computer.

In hindsight I should of just let this thread go by and never said a damn thing.

Jim

I was able to read between the lines and pull alot of useful info from this thread.i can see getting tired of defending your comments after putting in years of time hunting these threshers, but guys with alot less experience are reading and appreciate the insite.

[Kahouna]

I too read through the lines and gleaned some really good information. I'm pretty sure a lot of people got the same.

[Jim Sammons LJKF]

Just remember guys this is a kayak fishing forum not a skiff fishing forum and fighting a fish from a kayak is way different than the much higher weight of a skiff. You can land pretty much as big a fish as you want in a kayak with a TLD15 LD. Are there better and stronger reels that may give you a shorter fight, hell yes, will the TLD 15 do the job, I would say for anything you actually want to catch in your kayak, hell yes.
I say this no to brag in any fashion only to qualify my statement. I have caught dozens of Threshers from my kayak with my biggest T off my kayak weighed on a certified scale, so no made up weight, and it was 172.4 pounds. Landed on a TLD 15 LD with 20 pound test and a 100lb flouro leader. The fight lasted 2 1/2 hours and was caught over the LJ canyon. This fish, because I was in a kayak, never got more than half way into the spool of line. Same with my first Marlin from the kayak, which took much faster runs, which was estimated at 150-180. That one was on a Charter Special which I guess is closer in size to a TLD 10, this time 20lb test with no leader. Again this fish never got even close to halfway into the spool, it did though drag me 8 miles out. I was with my friend Howard when he hooked and fought a 300lb plus Blue Marlin on a Trindad 14 and the fight lasted 4 1/2 hours and covered close to 17 miles and again the fish never got more than 1/2 way into the spool. I only say these things again as a reminder that we are fighting fish from a moving platform so generally speaking you just don't need that big heavier gear that Jim is talking about. Not saying you wouldn't mind having it during those long fights and have the ability to drop into low gear and just grind.

On aside, threads like this are why this community has gone down hill and many of the guys that have been around for a long time no longer post. There is rarely the sharing of info, if you do share you get attacked, if you don't share you get attacked, or in the sharing you are attacking someone else, or the posts are just a.... look at me...... a I am better than the rest of you..... look at me... just condescending with no actual helpful information. It honestly really depresses me to think of how close this community used to be and to where it has now come.
The people that give others crap for sharing information are generally the same ones who were all over this site sucking up information when they got started. I just don't get it

[mtnbykr2]

, "Now back to your regular scheduled program already in progress"

[GregAndrew]

I could not agree more with you Jim Sammons.