FF = Problems?? - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

JPSURF · 07-14-2007, 04:06 PM

Well the last 2 times out i have had some FF problems. I removed the transducer that i gooped on the inside and found that it was coming unattached. So i re attached it. What i am seeing on the FF is am am getting good depth readings but the bottom seems to be the same(between rock and sand) in color. I went to LJ on friday and was not able to meter bait fish or even kelp when i was right on top of it.
Any ideas?
Jason

lamb · 07-14-2007, 04:56 PM

I'd check the transducer/unit connections. That seems to be the cause of majority of these weird problems.

My fishfinder has been acting up lately too..

It works fine a couple of hours, than just looses it - it is on, but it can't read squat... No bottom reading, nothing... It's not the battery, it does this with 3 different batteries... I guess the new one is order.

Salt water is taxing these electronics on the kayak big time.

ratdog · 07-14-2007, 05:17 PM

I have had the same problems more often than not. When I clean the connections it helps dramatically. I have come to rely less on my FF and more on my GPS.

Louis Clarke II · 07-14-2007, 09:13 PM

Check your battery. When it drops below xx volts this will cause erratic readings...

Louis & Clarke II

JPSURF · 07-15-2007, 04:08 PM

Voltage is reading around 11.6 volts. The connections seem to be good where the unit plugs into the base. I think this is what you are talking about but i will check around.

Thanks for the replys

Jason

zeelaagee · 07-17-2007, 09:53 PM

the angle and seating of the transducer is critical to performance. if it doesn't sit paralell to the waterline while the yak is in the water, it's going to give you funky or inadequate readings. air bubbles in your adheasive or not enough adheasive to create a full suround of the transducer will also cause malfunctions of readings.

these may not be your problem, but it's cheaper to troubleshoot these than to haul off and throw down on a new ff.

Kevin · 07-18-2007, 07:49 AM

The first fish finder I had, I could only see the bottom only with nothing in between. No bait, no kelp.... I also used Marine goop. After that I switched to Ace two part epoxy for plastic.

the difference is that the goop is soft and dampens the signal. Epoxy cures harder and gives you better resolution. But the hardness is also the draw back as it can become brittle and break off. So what I did was use some adhesive putty and formed it into a circle around the location I planned to install the transducer. Then I filled the circle with epoxy and installed the transducer. Of course avoid bubbles and use a weight to sit ontop of your tranducer while it cures. But this has worked perfectly for several years now.

The epoxy thing is nothing new, nor is using a well, but do a search on the different boards and you'll see a number of ways to do the same thing.

On an Extreme this process is even easier. once you shave the foam out from inside the hull you alread create a nice well for the epoxy...

The difference in what you can see between epoxy and goop installations on the fish finder is dramatic, well worth doing.

Kevin

zeelaagee · 07-19-2007, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

the difference is that the goop is soft and dampens the signal. Epoxy cures harder and gives you better resolution.

The epoxy thing is nothing new, nor is using a well, but do a search on the different boards and you'll see a number of ways to do the same thing.

The difference in what you can see between epoxy and goop installations on the fish finder is dramatic, well worth doing.

they physics of it sounds right- but i'm not sure i'm buying into this theory because a tansducer (from what i've read and heard) should operate without problems with a little bit of water in the area around the transducer (at least in testing situations)- and water is far less dense than MG or epoxy. is this something more critical for color display units than greyscale?

gotz togo fishin · 07-19-2007, 06:51 PM

Why mess with expoxies and glues? Mount your transducer on the outside of the kayak and obtain better resolution. Here is an example of my mounting.

BBrown · 07-20-2007, 05:27 AM

I have installed many puck style transducers on bassboats in the past and the two part epoxy works the best. It is imperative that the transducer sits parallel with the bottom of the vessel and that there are no air pockets under the transducer nor air bubbles in the epoxy.

Before you begin reaffixing you transducer again, you may want to clean you connections on both the power and transducer cables and the sockets on the base unit, then apply a liberal amount of di-electric grease to your connections each and every time you go out. This will improve the conductivity and reduce the amount of saltwater getting into your connections.

The exterior mounting technique noted in the above post is similar to the exterior mounting of a transducer on a trolling motor, which is truly the best way to go for the best signal.

Kevin · 07-20-2007, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeelaagee

they physics of it sounds right- but i'm not sure i'm buying into this theory because a tansducer (from what i've read and heard) should operate without problems with a little bit of water in the area around the transducer (at least in testing situations)- and water is far less dense than MG or epoxy. is this something more critical for color display units than greyscale?

This might help explain it better.

Quote:

Sound waves move faster through a denser medium because energy is more easily passed between tightly packed molecules. This helps explain why sound travels faster through water than through air, and faster still through steel than through water. But even more influential than a conducting medium's density is its elasticity. Elasticity refers to how well a medium can return to its initial form after being disturbed by a force. Steel has high elasticity. It bounces right back to its original shape after an applied force is removed. At the particle level, the molecules in elastic materials transfer energy more efficiently, so sound waves travel faster through steel than through water or air. But not all solids are good conductors of sound. Cork, for instance, has low elasticity. Its molecules tend to absorb energy rather than conduct it.

Marine goop performs more closely to cork in this respect and will absorb energy / sound. But that same ability to absorb energy / sound allows it to absorb flexing in your kayak hull and prevent the transducer from popping off. That is why marine goop is so popular for kayak installations.

I hope this makes better sense.

JPSURF · 07-20-2007, 07:54 PM

Thanks for the replys guys.
I think this time i remounted it i put alot of goop under the transducer and might not have applied enough weight to really mash it down close to the hull of the yak. So i think i might mount it temp on the outside to make sure the ducer is working correctly.

Jason

07-14-2007, 04:06 PM	#1
JPSURF Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 86	FF = Problems?? Well the last 2 times out i have had some FF problems. I removed the transducer that i gooped on the inside and found that it was coming unattached. So i re attached it. What i am seeing on the FF is am am getting good depth readings but the bottom seems to be the same(between rock and sand) in color. I went to LJ on friday and was not able to meter bait fish or even kelp when i was right on top of it. Any ideas? Jason

07-14-2007, 04:56 PM	#2
lamb Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,563	I'd check the transducer/unit connections. That seems to be the cause of majority of these weird problems. My fishfinder has been acting up lately too.. It works fine a couple of hours, than just looses it - it is on, but it can't read squat... No bottom reading, nothing... It's not the battery, it does this with 3 different batteries... I guess the new one is order. Salt water is taxing these electronics on the kayak big time. __________________ [------------------------ <)))< ....b-a-a-a-a

07-17-2007, 09:53 PM	#6
zeelaagee Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Carlsbad Posts: 37	the angle and seating of the transducer is critical to performance. if it doesn't sit paralell to the waterline while the yak is in the water, it's going to give you funky or inadequate readings. air bubbles in your adheasive or not enough adheasive to create a full suround of the transducer will also cause malfunctions of readings. these may not be your problem, but it's cheaper to troubleshoot these than to haul off and throw down on a new ff. __________________ Totally addicted!!!

07-20-2007, 05:27 AM	#10
BBrown Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: El Cajon, CA Posts: 24	I have installed many puck style transducers on bassboats in the past and the two part epoxy works the best. It is imperative that the transducer sits parallel with the bottom of the vessel and that there are no air pockets under the transducer nor air bubbles in the epoxy. Before you begin reaffixing you transducer again, you may want to clean you connections on both the power and transducer cables and the sockets on the base unit, then apply a liberal amount of di-electric grease to your connections each and every time you go out. This will improve the conductivity and reduce the amount of saltwater getting into your connections. The exterior mounting technique noted in the above post is similar to the exterior mounting of a transducer on a trolling motor, which is truly the best way to go for the best signal. __________________ Do you know "IF" is the middle word in "LIFE"? Stay Bent -

07-14-2007, 05:17 PM	#3
ratdog Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 424	I have had the same problems more often than not. When I clean the connections it helps dramatically. I have come to rely less on my FF and more on my GPS.

07-14-2007, 09:13 PM	#4
Louis Clarke II Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Youngsville, NC Posts: 37	Check your battery. When it drops below xx volts this will cause erratic readings... Louis & Clarke II

07-15-2007, 04:08 PM	#5
JPSURF Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 86	Voltage is reading around 11.6 volts. The connections seem to be good where the unit plugs into the base. I think this is what you are talking about but i will check around. Thanks for the replys Jason

07-18-2007, 07:49 AM	#7
Kevin Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 78	The first fish finder I had, I could only see the bottom only with nothing in between. No bait, no kelp.... I also used Marine goop. After that I switched to Ace two part epoxy for plastic. the difference is that the goop is soft and dampens the signal. Epoxy cures harder and gives you better resolution. But the hardness is also the draw back as it can become brittle and break off. So what I did was use some adhesive putty and formed it into a circle around the location I planned to install the transducer. Then I filled the circle with epoxy and installed the transducer. Of course avoid bubbles and use a weight to sit ontop of your tranducer while it cures. But this has worked perfectly for several years now. The epoxy thing is nothing new, nor is using a well, but do a search on the different boards and you'll see a number of ways to do the same thing. On an Extreme this process is even easier. once you shave the foam out from inside the hull you alread create a nice well for the epoxy... The difference in what you can see between epoxy and goop installations on the fish finder is dramatic, well worth doing. Kevin

07-20-2007, 07:54 PM	#12
JPSURF Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 86	Thanks for the replys guys. I think this time i remounted it i put alot of goop under the transducer and might not have applied enough weight to really mash it down close to the hull of the yak. So i think i might mount it temp on the outside to make sure the ducer is working correctly. Jason