Coffee Grinder for YT?

[TCS]

First of all, just let me tell you that I gave up on being cool in the 80s. Also keep in mind that this question is being asked by someone who knows with certainty that if a school of yellows boils more than 75 feet from my kayak (okay, maybe 100'), my current jigstick, in my hands, probably doesn't get the surface iron over the fish. So bring it on, you won't hurt my feelings. I'm comfortable with whatever lambasting I might get for even considering this, particularly if it results in me getting one of those boiling yellows.

Background: Grew up fishing spinners in freshwater and can cast those. Got into kayak fishing a couple of years ago and have pretty much figured out how to use the gear, with the exception surface iron casting. I have an 8' jigstick that is pretty heavy (no name brand) with a nice narrow saltist on it. When I try to get distance in a cast the result is mild to severe birds nesting, or no distance, sometimes both. I feel like the jigstick is not helping me much. Its heavy, doesn't load up. I hate stacking the line for the next cast.

So I've been thinking about a new jigstick. I like the 8'0 and 8'6" shimano teramar cause they're really light which could help when casting sitting down. But I'm still concerned that I'll drop a couple hundred on a nice setup that I can't use well.

Been looking at the youtube videos of kingfish fishing in Australia and NZ, and those dudes are using spinners, so.....

I'm thinking that maybe I could pick up one of the newer heavy spinning outfits, (in the $150 range for a reel) load it with powerpro, and use that for the occasional surface casting. Hell, since I'm alienating myself from the traditionalists, maybe I'll even put a waxwing on it!

So I have two options,

A) Get a better jigstick with my current reel, suck it up and learn to use it. Risk screwing the pooch at the critical moment if I don't practice enough. Don't have a lot of time to practice.

B) Get a heavy spinning outfit that I could toss a lot further and don't have to worry about stacking the line.

What do you think? Also, for both options, what's the best setup for limited budget. Combo on the spinner? Any reasonably priced spinning reels that can stand up to saltwater on a kayak? etc etc.

Thanks, Tom

[Mtobolsky]

LOL..... I have an 8 ft x80h terramar with a Cardiff 400a reel and I can cast that thing a country mile, love that poll! I have problems sometimes with my avet mc sx though. For whatever reason east coasters prefer spinning reels and we seam to prefer conventional but I do t really know why. I've also got a quantum cabo 80 real with a Boca rod ( rod is way to short) but I love the real. Casting is always consistant and the drag is unstoppable, with over forty pounds on tap. I love my avet but im don't think that drag on conventionals are as good as spinners....... Super smooth. At any rate I just recently happened to be in the right spot at te rigt time and destroyed a nice yellow on a coffe grinder and a waxwing! Those lures are pricey but they swim awesome and the double hooks are also awesome. Both hooks set and held firm through cutting bull kelp.

Final thoughts.. Fishing is supposed to be fun. If your spending all your time using gear that doesn't work for you than you just dont have as much fun and you lack confidence on the water. Those are the two most important things out there.

Tackledirect had some good quantum cabo combo deals. I would suggest dropping down a couple sizes to what I have, many a sixty... Plenty enough for anything out there.

[dorado50]

I'm learning spinners right now along the Gulf states. They are big here. I'll be throwing top water plugs with spin reel and 8' stick at those yt off yak this summer.

[TCS]

Yes, I know about your fish. I was out there too. Hence the post.... I went home wondering if I would have gotten it had I been in the same situation.

Congratulations by the way. That was a good one. Sashimi for dinner?

[TCS]

D50, what rod and reel models do you like?

[Lets_Fish]

Tom,

Not sure what type of reel your are using now, but have you tried any of the Avet MC style reels or a Newell? I have an old Newell that I learned to cast on, and oh my the free spool on it (back in the '80s) was awesome and it still casts great almost 30 years later. I have also watched some of the current videos on the Avet and I'm impressed. Here is one of them:
http://youtu.be/dmp0JdVDsRE

[TCS]

Avet had a casting demo at fred hall in LB, so I got to try their best reel on a nice rod, in a standing position so I could really lean into it. I didn't birds nest it and the distance wasn't bad. The problem was that with the the same setup sitting down I don't think it would have helped much. I think they're pretty pricey too.

Still could be an option with a different rod....

[roadx]

curious on the reply's too, i have been wanting to get a spinner for YT class fish and im leaning towards the diawa saltist 4500H.
the baitrunners & black bait n run also look interesting, it would be a nice option to have an adjustable free spool for live bait.

dont laugh but i thinking of going to get a ugly stick custom USCS1170-M

opinions of the combo? obviously im looking at the lower end reels $150-200 range

dont mean to hijack your thread but this may help us both choosing the right size reel.

[BT]

Tom,

I grew up with spinning reels too, and this whole conventional reel thing was new to me.

One thing I learned, no matter how good the fisherman, they all get a birds nest once in a while.

I was out yesterday, and I used for the first time my curado 300ej. its a bait caster, but the same concept, and cost a pretty penny. I have never casted a smoother set up in my life...but I still had a couple of birds nest. I had 100 ft of mono top shot, and almost every cast I casted into the braid (with a wax wing too). I have heard that the Talica IIs are amazing casters for a level drag.

The one thing I would be concerned about is making sure you get an aluminum ( i think thats what they are making them out of) spinning rod if thats the way you go and you spool it with braided.

And for the people that knock the wax wings, they are missing out. Those things swim like nothing else. Its amazing.

[TCS]

Hmm... Nobody said to get an Ulua yet...

Anybody going to try and talk me down?

The other thing I'm wondering about is spectra cutting into the index finger on the cast. I have a little penn slammer setup that I cast in the kelp for calicos with 25 pound power pro and that stuff starts to cut into the fingers from casting. What about that? Go heavier, like 80 pound so its not so sharp?

[tagyak]

my question is, will the braid start to twist up when you retrieve it onto a spinning reel? i know when i use fluorocarbon on my freshwater spinning reels it starts to twist up when i troll and also on the retrieve. just concerned that this would happen on the saltwater spinners.

[RK]

The saltists or okuma cedros (for less money) dont look like too bad of an option

[Billy V]

Originally Posted by TCS

First of all, just let me tell you that I gave up on being cool in the 80s. Also keep in mind that this question is being asked by someone who knows with certainty that if a school of yellows boils more than 75 feet from my kayak (okay, maybe 100'), my current jigstick, in my hands, probably doesn't get the surface iron over the fish. So bring it on, you won't hurt my feelings. I'm comfortable with whatever lambasting I might get for even considering this, particularly if it results in me getting one of those boiling yellows.

Background: Grew up fishing spinners in freshwater and can cast those. Got into kayak fishing a couple of years ago and have pretty much figured out how to use the gear, with the exception surface iron casting. I have an 8' jigstick that is pretty heavy (no name brand) with a nice narrow saltist on it. When I try to get distance in a cast the result is mild to severe birds nesting, or no distance, sometimes both. I feel like the jigstick is not helping me much. Its heavy, doesn't load up. I hate stacking the line for the next cast.

So I've been thinking about a new jigstick. I like the 8'0 and 8'6" shimano teramar cause they're really light which could help when casting sitting down. But I'm still concerned that I'll drop a couple hundred on a nice setup that I can't use well.

Been looking at the youtube videos of kingfish fishing in Australia and NZ, and those dudes are using spinners, so.....

I'm thinking that maybe I could pick up one of the newer heavy spinning outfits, (in the $150 range for a reel) load it with powerpro, and use that for the occasional surface casting. Hell, since I'm alienating myself from the traditionalists, maybe I'll even put a waxwing on it!

So I have two options,

A) Get a better jigstick with my current reel, suck it up and learn to use it. Risk screwing the pooch at the critical moment if I don't practice enough. Don't have a lot of time to practice.

B) Get a heavy spinning outfit that I could toss a lot further and don't have to worry about stacking the line.

What do you think? Also, for both options, what's the best setup for limited budget. Combo on the spinner? Any reasonably priced spinning reels that can stand up to saltwater on a kayak? etc etc.

Thanks, Tom

Lots of variables here... So I'll try to start at the the logical beginning.

The Cast itself is only as good as the experience and knowledge of the person operating the rod/reel.
-Take a salty deckhand for instance, using a homemade wrapped 90J that sits on the deck of a sport boat 365 days a year. Nothing special, no special Fuji SIC guides. This equipment doesn't see a drop of fresh water unless it rains, but he can fire off a long cast every time.

Its his technique, not necessarily the tools he is using.
If I wanted to cast like a deckhand - I would ask a deckhand to teach me how use the long rod. Its an invaluable resource and its available to anyone who wants to walk down to a local sport boat and ask.
-What's it gunna cost ? Lunch, maybe some beer money. These guys are the local experts on using the long rod. (The neurosurgeons of casting)

You can become proficient with the right instruction. You have to decide if your ready to take your casting to the next level.

This is my recommendation before spending anymore money on a New Jig Stick or crossing over into spinning reels just yet.

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I started as an east coast guy with spinning reels with 12' surf rods, but we are Not surf fishing here.

Case in point:
I have a spinning outfit here and thought I would try it on the kayak for awhile because I wasn't good at casting a conventional reel. I thought it would work good enough to get by - until I hooked a yellowtail and got smoked on the set up.
-The 7 ft. tiger ugly stick 20-50 was too parabolic to turn the fish - and I could not use "the rail" so to speak because the spinning Reel is on the bottom of the rod - unlike a conventional which sits above your legs/knees. You have to high stick the entire fight and its not easy.
(Even a 100J was easier to deal with on a kayak because you can lay the rod down on "the rail" )

Casting a spinner does tear up your finger a bit, but can can tape it with rescue tape or 3m Vet Wrap and its helps.

IMO there is not a good enough factory rod available yet where you can bolt up a Saltist spinner ($209), or Penn Battle ($109) but you can certainly have one wrapped if you want....... You need at least 8 ft. of rod to make this work.
-Some time this year I will give this a try just for the fun of it. Build a 690J or a 270H with spinning guides as a project -
---------------------------------------------

All in All - I am firm believer of the 10 ft. So Cal jig stick and conventional reel because I took the time to learn how to use one, but I learned to walk before I began to run. It was the Calstar 270H (an 8 ft. 15-40 glass rod) that I used to learn, and still enjoy fishing.
-Aside from actual practice one on one with a person, there is very little information posted on video that can teach this. The bulk of the stuff available deals with Loooong Distance pendulum style casting more applicable to Surf Casting.

Jim Sammons has a brief YouTube Vid that touches on some basic technique that carries over to longer rods as well. I agree with the principles and its a good starting point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s1Rwwcmkzc

[Billy V]

Originally Posted by TCS

Avet had a casting demo at fred hall in LB, so I got to try their best reel on a nice rod, in a standing position so I could really lean into it. I didn't birds nest it and the distance wasn't bad. The problem was that with the the same setup sitting down I don't think it would have helped much. I think they're pretty pricey too.

Still could be an option with a different rod....

The MC reels cast well.
If the demo rod had a tennis ball, or something similar it will not give you an accurate example of its capability.

You can fly a jig a good distance with one of these reels and the right rod.
Maintenance of the bearings comes into play - but its easy service.

[-scallywag-]

Good point Billy!

I can't imagine trying to fight a 30lb YT on a 9ft rod with heavy drag and not using "the rail"....talk about a back breaker!!!

I'm sure with the right reel (expensive) you could stop and turn a local YT but the price, cost to service, and back-breaker fights are some neg's I can't really deal.

For a cheap mag reel for spectra take a look at the Penn 525mag. It holds about 200yrds of #65 and is rated at around 12-14lbs of drag. Charkbait had some for 100 bucks a while back...good reel for the price and easy to service.

[MrPatrick]

There is a video by" palm beach people" on here I believe. He pulls AJ's and sailfish with a Penn conquer. The saltwater experience guys use Quantum cabo pts reels exclusively and pull up big fish.

[TCS]

Thanks for the input Billy and Scally,

It did have a tennis ball.
What do you think about a levelwind?
I have heard that how the line is stacked is critical to the next cast.

[THE DARKHORSE]

You'll shoot your eye out!




Short version: If you value your time and would like to know my honest opinion of using modern spinners for catching surface-iron Yellowtail---skip all the superfluous information I wrote below and simply read the last comments on both of these previous posts.
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Originally Posted by THE DARKHORSE

"newell 338,trinidad 40, or torium 20



Whew...thank goodness for the change in weather because my arms couldn't take much more. Being that it's my first day off work in a while, I'll bite .


Unless these are reels you already own...I'd suggest keeping your options open.

#1 The Newell 338: This reel has outstanding free-spool and is the go to reel for most deckhands on the West Coast. So if you're trying to fit in wearing your folded down Extra Tuff boots---go for it! Besides the great free-spool and looking cool aspect, I think most guys still use this reel for the easy service associated with it. It's easy to breakdown, easy to put a couple of drops of speed X on the bearings and most sportboats carry extra parts for these reels, too. Personally, not my favorite reel but obviously capable of doing the job. In my professional opinion, this is not a wise choice unless you are already casting at an expert level.

#2 Shimano Trinidad 40: This would be my go-to, straight 50 lb mono, yo-yo iron reel for sixty pound Cedros Island Yellowtail over heavy structure with forty guys standing shoulder to shoulder. It's too big and heavy, in my opinion, for a local surface-iron reel. It's an awesome reel, but the last one I'd pick out your reels you listed. I feel the same about the Torium 30; it's too big and heavy. Not to mention, the spool on Torium 30 is a little too wide. I know this because I used to have a Torium 30 on one of my Uluas, but eventually switched to the Torium 20.

#3 Shimano Torium 20 : It's a fact, you can cast farther with a Torium 20 due to the perfect height and width of the spool. Which is really what you should be considering when you purchase a reel, specifically for casting iron with a long rod. A few other reels that have this same perfect height and width of the spool are the Newell 338, Daiwa Saltist 40, Daiwa Sealine 40...to name a few. Enough of that, back to the Torium 20: this is the reel I used to love on my jig-sticks. Those days are over, though, and I'll tell you why. For one, I've broke the anti-reverse bearing on the Torium 20 over thirty times (a.k.a. The Knuckle Buster!). I've not only got the scars to prove it, but I'm pretty sure I fractured a finger in the process, too. It was swollen and hurt for five months, but I only go to the doctor when I can't stop the bleeding or can't breathe .

Not only that, but you need to be an engineer to service this reel yourself. For the guys that can do it, or are stubborn enough to do it...good for you. I'd rather go fishing myself. When you open this reel, it's a cute little mechanical bomb. And be prepared for springs and $h!^ to go flying everywhere. This is when I pack all the little parts, I can find, into a brown bag and send it in for service by a professional. If you insist on buying this reel, at least, put in a double-dog anti reverse and save your fingers!

If you're buying a conventional reel to cast surface-iron, for the kayak...I'd suggest picking up one of two reels. The first is a Daiwa Sealine 40. It's free-spool is just as good as a Newell 338. I can cast this reel just as far as any deckhand with a Newell (so can you with practice). It's durable as hell and takes abuse and keeps on ticking. It's got the perfect height and width as mentioned above. It's $109 at Squid Co. and I bet Charkbait has it on the cheap, too. It's easy to service and I've never had bloody knuckles from fishing with locked-down drags on bruiser Yellowtail with it. I'm man enough to admit that if the color scheme matched my four jig-sticks a little better...I'd have it on my jig-sticks, too. Unfortunately, black and gold would clash with any of my beautiful girls so it's not an option for me. The annoying clicking sound when you wind kind of bugs me, too (same for the Newell).

I use the Daiwa Saltist 40 on all my jig-sticks today. I've caught hundreds of Yellowtail on these reels and never broke the anti-reverse. Not once. Having bloody knuckles is a choice, apparently, so I'll leave that up to you. While this reel doesn't quite have the free-spool of the Sealine (I'm talking a tiny fraction of loss in free spool here). This reel is made to pull hard and is built a little better in my opinion. It's easy to service, doesn't make that annoying clicking sound and is priced below the Torium 20. They look like a tight mini-skirt on my beautiful girls, too. Which is important to me because I fondle them daily.

If you want to spend a little more and know that you're going to be distance challenged, I'll add another option. The Avet JX with Magic Cast. This reel is bullet proof, made for fishing heavy drag, easy to service and from what I've heard casts well. The only downside to this reel is you'll have to service it a bit more frequently than either of the Daiwa reels I mentioned. Not an issue since it's easy to do it yourself, though. The Avet LX would be the same as a Torium 30; too wide for efficient, repetitive casting and winding.


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If you know you're never going to be able to cast, long distance with control...don't rule out the coffee-grinders with spectra. Looking cool is an option; one we all face as the individual we choose to be. Remember, above all, catching Yellowtail on the surface-iron is much, much cooler, than simply looking cool.
In the words of Andre 3,000: " What's cooler than cool? Ice cold!"

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Originally Posted by THE DARKHORSE

Being that you already own those reels, I'd suggest practicing with the Shimano Torium 20 (that's if, the free-spool is in perfect working order?). At least the Shimano has a spool tension dial on the reel to aid in your learning curve. Once your casting in the 60-80 yard range, consistently without back-lashing, I'd switch to the Newell for those additional 20 yards.

Like I said, I wouldn't suggest the Newell unless you're already casting at an expert level; as there's no spool tension knob. It's the way it should be; incredible free-spool with no breaks. The Newell is hard to beat (free-spool wise), unless you're catching big Yellowtail on the surface-iron with heavy drag...all the time. Or, plan to fish the surface-iron with spectra (this reel isn't made for that kind of stuff). If you're doing either of those things--- the drags just go out when the entire ocean erupts in front of you. Which isn't a big deal either if you have two jig-sticks on board, like me .

Since you have a Daiwa Sealine 50 already (which has great free-spool as well), that's just another option for you. For me, even though the Daiwa Sealine 50 has great free-spool, it's a little too wide (same width as the Torium 30). Remember, each cast will be a direct result of how well you wound the line on. It's just more challenging to wind the line on perfectly with a wider spool. It's also more challenging to wind your line on perfectly with a reel that has a low gear ratio---if, you're trying to wind fast. Which is common on a lot of jigs to make them swim properly. For that reason, I prefer not only the perfect height and width of the spool, but a 6 to 1 gear ratio.

In my opinion, the ultimate goal should be training your thumb to adjust to each swing. While spool tension and Magic Cast will help in the early stages of learning to cast---eventually, you should be casting with no breaks on the reel at all.

Above all, like I said in my previous post---it's about one thing: catching more fish. And the surface-iron is a great tool to achieve that goal. While I have all conventional reels, without breaks or magnets used on any of them, my eyes are forever open when it comes to catching more fish; the sky's the limit!

I still like to think, I improve every-time I'm on the water. And if a twenty-foot, hot pink, upside down coffee grinder with spectra can cast 200 yards---you might see me swinging one before it's all said and done.

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.Longer version: If somehow, someway, all the guys banging Yellowtail on a regular basis...using the rods and reels we use isn't motivating enough...blaze your own damn trail. And I mean that in all seriousness without one iota of a hidden slam directed at you. I fish with a Seeker Ulua because I absolutely love that rod. I fish with a Calstar 100J and 10' Super Seekers because I love them, too. I love fishing them when casting from the deck of a sportie and I love fishing with them sitting in a kayak as well. If you learn how to cast standing up on a sportie, dock, pier, football field etc, you'll typically lose about 10% of that distance casting while sitting down. Which isn't crap if you can cast a mile standing up! Now, which is often the case, with anyone enticed by fishing spinners from what I've seen---if you can't cast for $h!t with a conventional reel standing up---than forget about it, if and when you're trying to cast sitting down! These are simply the facts, but use that information however you like. The Yellowtail and I are stoked if you never take the time to learn how to cast properly (unless I'm spending eight hours spotting schools of fish for you ). Short casts with bait rods or giant backlashes using your $400 proper jig-stick, lead to one thing: more fish for me!

So, obviously, you have two choices. One option is to learn how to cast and quit blaming the rod and reel your using (this advice is for the guys who already own the popular West Coast jig-sticks and proper reels: Calstar 90J, Calstar GG90J, Calstar 100J, Seeker Ulua 93H, Super Seeker bla bla bla, etc). That said, you'll have no idea of your true potential if you're trying to cast some, nonsense, 7' bait set-up; or nonsense 8' bait set-up for that matter! Some blanks are specifically designed for casting optimum distance; some clearly are not. Same for using properly sized reels, proper jigs---so on and so forth. All of which is completely, worthless, over priced crap if you don't ever practice casting in the first place, though.

The other option is to buy "a higher end spinning reel and popping rod" (crazy $$$ from my research). I've been researching this for clients lately and have been grossly disappointed in the market as a whole. After putting guys on school after school of Yellowtail---only to watch these guys blow their shot at a trophy fish---over and over and over again---I'd be the last person on the planet right now telling you not to buy a freakin' spinner! From what I've seen there's a ridiculous gap in the market and I can't believe for the life of me why Calstar and Seeker (for example) haven't jumped on this.

The same way you should be paying attention to the guys casting over one hundred yards, in the bow of a sport-boat, with the pre-mentioned jig-sticks---I looked to the Japanese guys using top of the line "popping rods" with spinners for my starting point in my research. These rods are sick, no doubt, but you could buy a brand new Hobie with less money than the rod and reel these guys use. I'm talking about one set-up!

Almost all the blanks and rods designed for spinning tackle, that I've either found on the internet or that I could find locally---in my opinion, completely suck for catching Yellowtail. They're either a short rod with the proper rating (30-60 lb), or some terribly unbalanced surf-rod blank with complete junk components. From what I've seen locally and on the internet, going custom wrapped is pretty much your only option if you're interested in a quality product designed to handle the task at hand. A friend of mine recently showed me a 8' spinning set-up with spectra that cast a Tady 45 seventy yards with ease. After checking out the blank a little more closely---brand, line rating and such---while it could no doubt put that jig in the proper spot with ease---it would be no match for the local crop of fish. Kelp paddy, rat-yellows, is one thing; thirty pound class, pissed off fish in heavy structure is another! Why in the hell isn't there a Calstar 90J on the market with larger titanium guides and a reel seat, designed for modern day spinning tackle? I'm thinking something along the lines of a Calstar 690J, due to it's whippier tip, would be perfect for a West Coast spinner (I'm not a fan of this blank for a conventional reel jig-stick, though). The same question goes for Seeker? In my humble opinion, it makes no sense. The obvious answer using my limited education---would be lack of demand on the West Coast.

Unfortunately, having a job that somewhat relies on a guy being able to cast when we get our shot---after trying to create that shot for ten hours, I'm all for guys buying a proper spinning set-up! As long as there's guys who can't cast, or simply can't cast when they actually come face to face with a full on 'foamer of feeding fish, or a Football field sized school of free-swimming fish---there's a time and place for having a nice spinning set-up if you asked me. Which is the reason why I'll be rockin' one here soon as well. While my time is incredibly inexpensive, it's valuable to me.

[Mtobolsky]

Ah ha..... So that's why my back is sore... No big deal though, I have a little bit of a work out soreness and he gets a gaff shot behind the gill. I think the biggest negative is that coffee grinders are heavy....maybe not if you compare apples to apples though. My cabo has 42 lbs of smooth drag compare that to a conventional with the same drag and it would be light. The reel cast far (would be farther with a longer rod) haven't experienced the line twist issue and doesn't hurt my finger to cast (65 lb spectra). Whatever, it gets the job done nicely. I've seen guys pull on 150lb GT's and 300lb blue fin so I know they are capable.....it's just whatever your into, it's all good stuff.

[chefjtwalker]

Yes you can cut your fingers throwing straight spectra from a spinning real. This past February I was throwing 6-10oz plugs in panama, straight spectra no top shot, with 60 lb braid. After about 2 hours my index finger was tore up. Put some wrap on it and it helped, but had to change every hour. I had the good wrap too, the stuff vets use on animals.
Gotta say too, throwing the plugs a mile without an issue was nice. The guide I used was using all shimano gear. Not sure what models because it was all written in Japanese, cheaper to ship from Japan than US.