Our 2 cents for WCW 2007

[Aaron&Julie]

This year has been a great year for us kayak fishing-wise. We've met some outstanding people, caught some quality fish, enjoyed fishing in our first tournaments (Moyer & OEX), and are currently exceeding our hopes of a top ten finish in the WCW 2006.
We are making a few suggestions here that might level the playing field and encourage a wider range of participation in WCW 2007.
Since most people can not get out more than once or twice a month, it seems submitting 3 or 4 fish a month gives a minority of anglers a huge advantage.

1) Why not just one fish per month? Add one mulligan during the year and that means a person can weigh in a maximum of 13 fish.

2) Also, to keep people further motivated, why not allow any fish to count? The exceptions being sharks, eels, rays and mola-molas (sunfish). This will allow everyone to score at least some points during even the slowest months, whether it be a 1 lb mackerel (also known as bait), a 3 lb yellowfin croaker, an 8 lb barracuda, or a 40 lb yellowtail.

3) Let all fish count equally, one point per pound. Any 10 pound fish is 10 points, 20 pound fish is 20 points, etc. To encourage C&R a bonus point or two could be added. This way a person catching an 8 lb calico, could weigh it, photograph it, and release it getting 9 or 10 points for his conservationism.

We would love to see this format. By July, there could be 25 people still battling closely for top honors. Everyone who joins would be submitting catches, putting even more fun into this event. We’d get to see a whole bunch of new faces out there. That would be a nice change from seeing the same faces (ours included) dominating the submissions.

P.S. With almost 900 registered users now, thanks to the fine work of Adi, hopefully we'll see more than 38 people join this year-long tournament in 2007. Everyone who might be interested in joining next year should chime in now. Feedback can do wonders for expanding participation.

[rippin lips]

A&J, although I probably have no vote in this idea I think it is a great one.

The only reason I haven't joined in on the contest is targeted specifically at the fact that I cannot fish as much as others on here, some work next to LJ and hit the morning sesh and some don't work as much and can hit it as well, I personally work approx. 14-16hrs/day and am limited to saturdays only and even then I cannot fish every weekend.

I do dig seeing all the entry pics and it is motivating but to see such pics supplied mostly by the same 5 or 6 people kinda de-motivates me in a way as it seems that it is catered to only a handfull.

I know all are welcome but I think many may feel the same way.........that they have no chance if their submissions are few due to the lack of time they are able to dedicate on the water IDK just a thought.

Indeed an excellent proposal A&J

[dorado50]

Could one catch ten fish and submit the largest at end of month?

[lamb]

I played WCW the last two years and loved it. You bet I’ll play 07 regardless of the rules.

I know there will be some changes. I’m sure everyone’s constructive feedback is encouraged and welcomed.

Do not forget though that the 06 rules were heavily modeled after generous input the folks provided. Then WCW 06 ended up with 39 people signing up, less than the year before. :shock: Personally, I was very disappointed at apparent lack of support given the number of people that seem to frequent the forum and “feed” on reports. :cry:

I joined WCW05 in May and had no less fun then in WCW 06, where I played from the beginning and (not sure how that happened :rambo: ) did quite all right.

Some people do get to fish more, some less. Whether you have 1 allowed submission per month or three, the folks that want to win this thing BAAAAAAD will still fish more and be able to catch and submit a bigger fish. That doesn’t change how bad we all love the sport - we're probably all equal there. 8)

IMHO, playing WCW is about having fun playing and supporting your fellow brothers and sisters that paddle. Participating in any of kayak fishing tournaments is great way to actually demonstrate that support.

Given the year long format, WCW just ought to have more significant $$ rewards. I did my part in trying to fix that.

This is by no means the “official” response, just a sincere response from BWE Spam Sanitation department. :geek:

[mossback]

Been lurking on wcw for several months and think it is a great concept. I wish I found out about it earlier in the year tho. I will definately enroll for 2007 and I'm trying to talk a non posting friend into it as well.

I know it is a year long tourney but I am sure there are other people who didnt enroll because they found out about it too late in the year, or they only fish for a few months of the year.

What do you guys think about including monthly winnings as well as yearly winnings coming out of the entry fees? or having an optional division like the jackpots similar to the oex tourney... just a couple thoughts on that...

When refering to the species of fish, I feel that the YT WSB and HB's should be counted for more as they are tougher to catch for different reasons but I also agree that other species of fish should be included but for less points.

either way I will see a couple of you in the top 3 in 2007

[tattuna]

I think adding more species to submit is a good idea. When it comes to yellows and wsb, if you don't live in La Jolla, you're outta luck. That might encourage more of us in the L.A. area to join. I'm still not sure if I'm gonna sign up again for '07 though, only because of work. I went from fishing 100+ days a year to maybe 10 this year.

[Hobie-Pedaller]

A&J,

you proposed some very good ideas to get more anglers involved in the 2007 WCW.

one fish a month, with most all species counting as points, and equal points for any species - ALL certainly sound like good ideas to me.

this would definitely allow many more of us average Joes to be a little more competitive with the big boys in the field, and thus be more likely enticed to enter the 2007 WCW.

the way i see the 2006 WCW..... it is as a very high standard of competition style event, rewarding particiants for frequently getting many of the elite fish species, and style points for the rarer species. this tests the ultimate greats of in-shore 'yak fishing. but naturally there are fewer of these super anglers around, thus it's a small, prestigious group in the competition.

this is all good, and i'm impressed with what i saw on the the "2006 WCW SLAM" thread. as i posted on there, that was an awesome thread, and there i saw all the very best SD in-shore anglers and saw many of the best kayak fish caught in So Cal & Mexico waters in all of 2006. 8)

as a spectator - i really like the 2006 WCW format. it's like watching an all-star game. and for these better anglers, it's surely exciting for them to compete for this elite crown.

as a participant - i certainly like A&J's new ideas for 2007 WCW to make it more possible for me as a mediocre angler to compete.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

for these reasons.... i would suggest to WCW directors to consider this possible idea:

to have TWO separate tiers or levels of the WCW 2007 trny.
(actually 2 separate events, with separate fees, winners, prizes, etc.)

(a) ammend the existing WCW 2006 trny format along the ideas proposed by A&J above. this would be the main WCW 2007 trny, and it would obviously promote the event to grow in entrants and size and exposure.

(b) then create a new, separate WCW-Elite tourney (or WCW-Pro, or WCW-Slam, or similiar name). and then have it's format based much like the existing WCW 2006 format. this would maintain the current style event for these ELITE guys that fish alot, and frequently target a lot of the sizeable SLAM fish (YT, WSB, and Buts).

if WCW decide to have 2 separate events.....

- both trnys are totally separate and independent of one another regarding fees, prizes, and points totals.
- both trnys run for all 12 months just like now.
- anglers could choose to enter their choice of just one, or the other, or both tourneys.
- any fish caught is eligible for submission to both contests by that same angler.


just some more ideas for WCW 2007 to ponder.

[Aaron&Julie]

Originally Posted by lamb

IMHO, playing WCW is about having fun playing and supporting your fellow brothers and sisters than paddle.

Couldn't agree more with the fun part...so the suggestion Hobie-Pedaller (Doug?) has of 2 separate WCW tiers sounds like a WONDERFUL idea. This would definitely generate more overall participation.

Maybe the Moderators should conduct a quick poll to see what kind of participation would exist under a dual tier format, asking members:
Would you join the previous (Elite) tourney?
Would you join the all-fish-count, one fish a month tourney?
Or would you join both?

[Lit-up1]

Just my thoughts-
Watever I paid into WCW was returned already in great reporting and
some awsome stories and photos. Although I would like to be more competative in this year long event, my focus has been elswhere :roll:
I will enter again and whatever the moderators decide the rules to be I think everyone should "buy in" just for the current info on what's biting- that clearly increase everyones fun and enjoyment and more importantly chances to go out and have a successfuly day-The guys/girls who win will pay more than the buy-in-they will pay serious dues-time on the water wins this thing every time.
Now I'm not saying I have no chance to win but if I did have no chance :roll: I would still buy into this thing and reward those willing to take the time to go out and report what happened accurately every time they go.
Thanks,
Dave

[lamb]

The bass master has spoken... :king:

Personally, I don't think other species should be added. I think YT-WSB-BUTT established format is cool. Emphasis on the "Whoppers" part...

Not sure about submitting bass, lings, bonez, cudas or macks... :cry: There are plenty of bass tournaments, including yearly ones (WCB).

One thing to consider – it is a lot of work already. It would be administrative nightmare to sort out all those submissions... Keep in mind that some real people (enthusiastic about the sport and WCW competition, volunteers) are putting in their real time to support the whole thing. As far as I know there is no people on BWE or WCW payroll.

It ought to be as simple as possible.

Doug’s point from spectator’s perspective is an interesting one. The question that everyone who’s not playing should ask themselves – would you be joining if access to WCW fishing reports was available only to WCW players?

Timely fishing intelligence shared here is well worth the price of tourney entry, if you ask me.

It’s not a secret that I always lobbied for private access, WCW Players only. I believe it would create a whole different atmosphere. Anyone would be welcome to join, and you’d have a closed circle. It is this “open to the whole world” aspect that turns a lot of people away from posting. More information would be shared on private board, to everyone’s benefit.

But that’s just my opinion. That was my 2 c I chipped in for BWE 06, and I still stay behind that suggestion for WCW 07.

From the technical perspective, private access board is very easy to implement on these phpBB forums.

[Aaron&Julie]

Originally Posted by mossback

When refering to the species of fish, I feel that the YT WSB and HB's should be counted for more as they are tougher to catch for different reasons but I also agree that other species of fish should be included but for less points.

Mossback, we somewhat disagree with this. While most anglers would rather catch one of these 3, consider any 8 lb fish.
There were hundreds of yellowtail this size caught this summer off of La Jolla by kayakers. It was quite easy to to do. And while one this size will give you a nice tow, is it more of an accomplishment than landing an 8 lb calico?
We would rather catch an 8 lb lingcod. And what about bay fisherman nailing an 8 lb yellowfin or spotfin croaker? That's close to a record size fish.
Besides, a person submitting an 8 lb barracuda would get only 8 points, while someone targeting a yellowtail might land one weighing 20 lbs or more, giving him/her 20 points or more.
The sheer size of the top 3 reward the anglers with more points. People would continue to mainly target these fish for points.
Again, just our 2 cents.

[nmbrinkman]

I didn't join WCW '06 frankly because I really din't understand the rules... Although I haven't taken the time to understand. Honestly, I'm really not that great of a Southern California fisherman and most of my energy is focused on learning what the hell I'm doing and trying to beg/borrow/steal any techniques and advice I can... With that said, I'm in for WCW '07. I think most of what I have to learn is gained by experience since I believe I know the basics.

[dorado50]

tatuna that is a quality tat, very cool.

[madscientist]

I don't care what species are in as long as it's a 10lb (or more) minimum. Put the "whopper" back in WCW. Sure, an 8lb cali is a "whopper" cali, but so is a 3lb mac or a 1lb sardine. I think WCW should remain a tournament focused on the premier inshore species, leave the trash, bass, and bait for others (WCLF-West Coast Little Fish).

I didn't sign up when I first moved out because I thought I wouldn't have that much time. Turned out I was wrong. I joined last year after catching my first YT of 26lb. I ended up third, 25pts behind Andy.

Hopefully everyone that enjoys the sport will consider signing up, even if they don't think they'll be competitive for the top places. In the end, the fun is in playing, not the winning, and the more people that play then the more likely that the organizers can attract sponsors and prizes for monthly bonuses and/or prizes further down the leaderboard.

Regardless of rules, the simple fact is that success is almost always proportional to time on the water. This is not unlike other sports, where time spent training/practicing is as essential as inherent talent. Perhaps an "amateur" division which is just for fun (ie, no money) is an okay idea if someone is willing to handle the legwork (looks sideways at Adi), but I think it would be a distraction and somewhat redundant. That's the problem with any two tiered format: either you ban the "elite" (who determines who is "elite"?) from the lower tier or the "elite" will just win both. Neither strikes me as wise.

[tylerdurden]

I like keeping only yt, wsb, and buts. Maybe count bonito, if those hit 10# that is a biggie. The other fish are just too common. People don't get all that excited about catching a calico/cuda/turd, even a nice one. I like the 10# min or something along those lines for the whopper part. I don't know about the exotics next year. Most did not have the means to get a shot at them. Although if exotics are included again next year I think grouper and amberjack should be included . Maybe 1 fish per month, and only count all fish as 1pt per pound.

More people should enter. If you enjoy the timely reports, pictures etc you should enter. I had no idea I would do this well this year as it is my first year on the water kayaking, but I still entered becuase I thought it was worth it becuase of the info people post.

Just some of my thoughts. I can't wait until Jan 1st. I want to get the first fish of the year.

[MKNOTT]

Man this is a great thread! I really like reading about all the interest and concerns. Right on Dave and nmbrinkman, thats what its all about. I cant wait to see the new rules and standerds. MKNOTT

[lamb]

Mike,

nice avatar...

Great tatoo... on your leg :lol:

[Holy Mackerel]

I am in, only in the sense, that I might win, (yeah right) the same reason, I buy a lottery ticket, with really little to no chance. :P I have to be honest, it is not much fun watching the same people lead by a couple hundred points... While I respect their skills, dedication, and enjoy their reports, let's face it those guys spend more time on the water, not because they crave it more than everyone else, but because they can. For those people that do not have flexible schedules and work 8-5pm mon through Fri, then have only the weekends to fish, it is hard to be competitive. Waiting for a weekday bite to stay until sat or sun = Frustration. Throw in family functions, kids, girlfriends :roll: , mistresses etc, some people (not me thank God) have to choose their fishing weekends wisely,and I can respect, and appreciate that. IMHO tournaments like these are more fun if they are competitive, and have parody, flip flopping of the leaders, a close race, multiple submissions.... Who likes to watch blowouts in sports? I understand, it will never be a level playing field in things like this, but it is ok to shake things up too.

I can see all sides, and appreciate the info shared by anglers on all the message boards. I would keep an open mind to multiple species, but can understand restricting to certain species, ie WSB, YT, and Hali.

ONE fish per month, One pt per pound, any legal size, Keep the release 15 pts, (no tape shot on YT) Keep the Mulligan, drop the mothership Wildcard. Make an incentive other than prestige for the top Ten, money off the top for #4-10 free sign up for next year... ahhh whatever, I'm playing! :lol:

Just some unsolicited suggestions... 8)

Chris

btw: R.I.P WCB

[gary sullivan]

I like it KISS. Being retired I get out more than most but am not compelled to go out more than twice a week like some, to fish La Jolla. I feel that with a little luck I could come up with one quality fish a month and not be at the tail end of the WCW tournament. I plan on registering for 2007 regardless of the format. Even with the single format as A&J suggested, whoever puts in the most time on the water and is the best fisherman will over a course of twelve months, come out on top.

[nmbrinkman]

I forgot to mention that I do like the private boards for WCW... Call me juvenile but I like the little secret clubhouse.... Can we get decoder rings?

-Nate