LJ Conditions has it all wrong, Clipboarders are good - Kayak Fishing Adventures on Big Water’s Edge

kurtfish · 05-09-2011, 11:42 AM

As for the conditions today they are not good, white caps and big waves at launch.

In regards to the clipboard ladies they are just trying to get data on fishing activities and it is good to report all fish caught especially baitfish. Last week a Mackerel fishery conference was held at Scripps and the lack of reporting of Mackerel landings by recreational fishermen made the scientists report that we hardly catch any Macs with all the hours of sportfishing logged in our local waters. The 1/2 days boats don't bother reporting Mac landings either so the data shows not many Macs caught in the local waters. If we don't let the scientsists know how plentiful the various species of Macs are around here they will have justification to place limits on these specieis.

The graduate students that are trying to collect data have nothing to do with the MLPA process they are accurally trying to help us. The more fish we report the better picture we paint of the very healthly local fisheries that we have in our area. If we under report to these dedicated folks that are just trying to do a challenging job we play into the hands of the MPA pormoteres and the "all oceans are overfished" folks that want to shut us down.

My commerical fishing client that attended the meetings at Scripps last week is the one that suggested we need to make proper reports even with the fish we release so the scientists cant' say that all these guys spending lots of time fishing our local waters are not catching much fish at all. If we don't report our landings proeprly they don't know about all the fish we catch very single trip.

Don't foreget to turn-in your WSB heads to Hubbs as well. The scientists at Hubbs are trying to help us as well. Not all scientists are in the pockets of The Packard Foundation.

dos ballenas · 05-09-2011, 12:31 PM

Very very very good points Kurt. Thank you.

NOT talking to the survey people only HURTS fishermen.

It's important to realize that "science" is going to go on, regardless of whether or not you talk to them.

With or without you, fish populations ARE being scrutinized, studied, researched, counted, analysed, etc...

You can choose to keep your mouth shut and let the science happen without your input, or you can choose to contribute and help shape the face of fisheries research.

Either way, the science will go on.

Do you want the guys doing the science to have bad data, or good data?

The data they are compiling is used to determine the stock status of given species.

Without your help all they have is bad data.

Its easy to assume that there are NO fish in the sea when all the fishermen are reporting NO fish.

When you DON'T talk to the survey people it's pretty easy for them to assume that you didn't catch anything.

This can be easily interpreted that there are NO fish in the sea to catch.

YES, it's easy for data to be used against fishermen. Especially when all the data says that there are NO fish in the sea.

That is why it is important to have GOOD data. If we had data that could have shown how healthy our fishery actually is, things may have have been different during the MLPA process. Fishermen would have been able to back themselves up better.

Unfortunately, the lack of data told a different story.

The point is, you are only hurting yourself by keeping your mouth shut.

There is an old saying that 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish. Unfortunately that saying is more or less true. And if the environmentalists base their "opinions" on the reports they get from the 90% of fishermen that never catch any fish, then its easy to see how people tend to think that the oceans are over fished and we need to close areas and make reserve...

Most of you should be able see how this is NOT helpful to fishermen.

Environmental extremists DON'T have a clue as to whats really going on with our fisheries. Which is mainly our fault.

kurtfish · 05-09-2011, 01:07 PM

Awsome job spelling it out for us non-science guys. The MLPA process was so one sided that our good showings of black shirts to try to counter balance the baby blue shirts was not very effective. My son was able to get a few good words in at the meetings and we left the following photos on the BRTF memeber tables but the faulty science fuled the day.

Bob Fletcher and United Anglers continue their tireless work against the MLPA porcess on our behave. One lawsuit vistory so far that focused on the "closed door meetings" that were part of the review process and now the ongoing lawsuit focusing on the Environmental Quality Act which had the audacity to project no economic impact on the Southern California economy if the most restrictive MPAs were imposed. Talk about science without any real data to back it up. If we report no fish landed than cutting down our fishing areas and making us all fish on top of each other really should not impact our lack of sucess. Since we must all be idiots to spend so much time on the water not catching anything than restricting our fishing areas really should not impact our results or the commerical business associated with our fruitless efforts. This is the way the tree huggers think about what we love to do and this is what the scientsts reports allow them to justify with the inaccurate data they have collected.

I am guilty as well as I have reported landings or lack there of many times but never once did I mention how many Macs I released after a cozy afternoon in my bait tank.
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dos ballenas · 05-09-2011, 01:34 PM

The Sportfishing Association of Ca, its current president Ken Franke, and its past president Bob Fletcher all support the research being done by the CADFG, NMFS, NOAA, port samplers, etc.

There are many ways fishermen can become involved in helping fisheries biologists get better data.

One way or another, they will always be data.

YES, environmentalists will try to use any and all data to promote their agenda. But that doesn't mean fishermen can't use it to promote their agenda as well.

Amish Ed · 05-09-2011, 07:55 PM

It's funny, but whenever I talk to the clipboard ladies they seem surprised when I report that I release all my fish. Never the less I've always figured it couldn't hurt to talk to them. Thanks to Kurt I now know why.

dorado50 · 05-09-2011, 09:12 PM

If I catch fish Im more than willing to talk to these people

when I don't they seem to irratate me!! That's just the way it is.. Great info guys. Hopefully someday I can move past the irratation phase..

radastaff · 05-09-2011, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dorado50

If I catch fish Im more than willing to talk to these people

when I don't they seem to irratate me!! That's just the way it is.. Great info guys. Hopefully someday I can move past the irratation phase..

good point too

when i dont catch fish
i get irratated easily
specially when someone comes up to me after the long hard windy day
and askes me if i did
grrr

dos ballenas · 05-09-2011, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dorado50

If I catch fish Im more than willing to talk to these people

when I don't they seem to irratate me!! That's just the way it is.. Great info guys. Hopefully someday I can move past the irratation phase..

agreed! I hate talking to anyone when I smell skunky!

GregAndrew · 05-10-2011, 01:59 PM

While I don't believe in general that the clip board crew have an agenda, the data they gather is not scientific and will create statistics that will be used inacurately against us. Surveying is much less effective in creating useful statistics when there is a low responce rate. From what I have seen at the launches, that is the case.

If the catch rates are relatively high, then we are going to be blamed for overfishing. If they are low then there are no more fish in the ocean. If 80% of anglers catch their target fish, then the other 20% will be the point of the other sides argument. In a protectionist political environment, it is better for us to provide less ammo for the other side. So the question is " Does my response provide more or less ammo to those who would close fishing?".

I don't know what the best thing for us to do is, but I am pretty sure that information obtained from these surveys will not help us catch fish. Nor will it accurately determine fish populations. I am inclined to cooperate when I catch fish and decline when I don't.

Regor · 05-10-2011, 02:16 PM

I've never seen "them", but I'm reading through this thread and hear assumptions going both ways, for them, against them.

Every reputable organization usually has "the" pitch that they are told to use....

..
..

Hi, I'm Susie from Scripts Institute, and I'm here to do a survey ... blah blah blah.

Hi, I'm Joe, your local DFG officer. Here to check your catch and license.

So far I've heard no-one state who these folks really are, or who they say they are? Guess if I ever see the "clipboard lady" I'll have to pick her brain as much as she tries to pick mine

tagyak · 05-10-2011, 02:58 PM

not to change the subject; Regor i just noticed your avatar. all this time i thought it was just two clown fish, i didn't notice that they were painted onto two peoples cheeks.
that is really cool......

radastaff · 05-10-2011, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tagyak

not to change the subject; Regor i just noticed your avatar. all this time i thought it was just two clown fish, i didn't notice that they were painted onto two peoples cheeks.
that is really cool......

that is way cool
iam trippin on it

imagine u and ure gf/wife having those tatts
that would be crazy

MuddyMike · 05-11-2011, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regor

So far I've heard no-one state who these folks really are, or who they say they are? Guess if I ever see the "clipboard lady" I'll have to pick her brain as much as she tries to pick mine

I met a clipboard lady coming in at Dana Landing. I asked "Who is this for?" She said DFG. She had a DFG hat and shirt on, not a uniform, just a hat with the emblem, and white shirt with the emblem. She was not driving a DFG marked car either.

Margarita Mike · 05-11-2011, 12:28 PM

At this point, I really don't trust any of them. Who can you believe anymore?
Sorry.

dos ballenas · 05-11-2011, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuddyMike

I met a clipboard lady coming in at Dana Landing. I asked "Who is this for?" She said DFG. She had a DFG hat and shirt on, not a uniform, just a hat with the emblem, and white shirt with the emblem. She was not driving a DFG marked car either.

DFG wardens wear uniforms.

DFG biologists DO NOT wear uniforms, or drive state vehicles.

You guys are classic. The sky is falling the sky is falling!

Do you guys believe in medical science?

There are many people that are passionate about the ocean. Most of them do not have hidden agendas.

Yes there are flaws in the way the data is collected. Yes there are probably better ways to get better data.

We still have a lot to learn about the ocean and all its resources.

I can't figure it out: The same guys that don't trust fisheries biologists are the same guys that get excited about stuff like the satellite tagging of albacore tuna and tracking them across the ocean from Japan to the U.S. West coast.

Without fisheries research and management many of our Ca fisheries would have collapsed a long time ago.

Can you imagine what it would be like if no one ever took the time to figure out how long it takes for a Calico to reach sexual maturity? What about banning inshore drift gill nets?

A wise man once said: Its not about closures, its about proper management.

MuddyMike · 05-11-2011, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dos ballenas

DFG wardens wear uniforms.

DFG biologists DO NOT wear uniforms, or drive state vehicles.

You guys are classic. The sky is falling the sky is falling!

Do you guys believe in medical science?

Chill out man. What part of my post mentioned I doubted her.

I was responding to the other post about people asking who they were. I had no reason to doubt she was taking data for DFG.

MuddyMike · 05-11-2011, 05:01 PM

ok, after re-reading it, i can see how it could have been taken that way. i was just reporting what i saw. the thought of her not being legit didn't even cross my mind. she even had a big metal fish measurer with her.

T Bone · 05-11-2011, 05:01 PM

I say just tell them the truth.If the other side wants to twist it so be it.Integrity is allways more important.

I had a clipboard lady call me on the phone.It wasnt about what I caught,It was about where I fish.It was an economic impact survey.

dorado50 · 05-11-2011, 07:02 PM

You guys are classic. The sky is falling the sky is falling!

X2......lmao

TCS · 05-11-2011, 09:20 PM

The last time I got questioned by the 'clipboard people' I didn't feel like talking. This girl who had seemed nice and cute starts to get all mad and she touches the secret button on her collar and a black unmarked van came roaring onto the beach. These navy seal types hopped out, threw me in the van and off we go. Next thing I know the damn van is lifting off, we leave the atmosphere to outer space behind the moon to be a friggin alien mothership.

I won't gross you out with the other details of the abduction, except to say the the 'clipboard people' are not actually people at all and their 'survey' is really a part of a diabolical plan to take over and dominate our planet!

05-09-2011, 11:42 AM	#1
kurtfish Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: I work in the little Village of La Jolla Posts: 139	LJ Conditions has it all wrong, Clipboarders are good As for the conditions today they are not good, white caps and big waves at launch. In regards to the clipboard ladies they are just trying to get data on fishing activities and it is good to report all fish caught especially baitfish. Last week a Mackerel fishery conference was held at Scripps and the lack of reporting of Mackerel landings by recreational fishermen made the scientists report that we hardly catch any Macs with all the hours of sportfishing logged in our local waters. The 1/2 days boats don't bother reporting Mac landings either so the data shows not many Macs caught in the local waters. If we don't let the scientsists know how plentiful the various species of Macs are around here they will have justification to place limits on these specieis. The graduate students that are trying to collect data have nothing to do with the MLPA process they are accurally trying to help us. The more fish we report the better picture we paint of the very healthly local fisheries that we have in our area. If we under report to these dedicated folks that are just trying to do a challenging job we play into the hands of the MPA pormoteres and the "all oceans are overfished" folks that want to shut us down. My commerical fishing client that attended the meetings at Scripps last week is the one that suggested we need to make proper reports even with the fish we release so the scientists cant' say that all these guys spending lots of time fishing our local waters are not catching much fish at all. If we don't report our landings proeprly they don't know about all the fish we catch very single trip. Don't foreget to turn-in your WSB heads to Hubbs as well. The scientists at Hubbs are trying to help us as well. Not all scientists are in the pockets of The Packard Foundation. Last edited by kurtfish; 05-09-2011 at 12:36 PM.

05-09-2011, 12:31 PM	#2
dos ballenas Vampyroteuthis infernalis Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 585	Very very very good points Kurt. Thank you. NOT talking to the survey people only HURTS fishermen. It's important to realize that "science" is going to go on, regardless of whether or not you talk to them. With or without you, fish populations ARE being scrutinized, studied, researched, counted, analysed, etc... You can choose to keep your mouth shut and let the science happen without your input, or you can choose to contribute and help shape the face of fisheries research. Either way, the science will go on. Do you want the guys doing the science to have bad data, or good data? The data they are compiling is used to determine the stock status of given species. Without your help all they have is bad data. Its easy to assume that there are NO fish in the sea when all the fishermen are reporting NO fish. When you DON'T talk to the survey people it's pretty easy for them to assume that you didn't catch anything. This can be easily interpreted that there are NO fish in the sea to catch. YES, it's easy for data to be used against fishermen. Especially when all the data says that there are NO fish in the sea. That is why it is important to have GOOD data. If we had data that could have shown how healthy our fishery actually is, things may have have been different during the MLPA process. Fishermen would have been able to back themselves up better. Unfortunately, the lack of data told a different story. The point is, you are only hurting yourself by keeping your mouth shut. There is an old saying that 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish. Unfortunately that saying is more or less true. And if the environmentalists base their "opinions" on the reports they get from the 90% of fishermen that never catch any fish, then its easy to see how people tend to think that the oceans are over fished and we need to close areas and make reserve... Most of you should be able see how this is NOT helpful to fishermen. Environmental extremists DON'T have a clue as to whats really going on with our fisheries. Which is mainly our fault. __________________ ____________________________________________ Last edited by dos ballenas; 05-09-2011 at 02:11 PM.

05-09-2011, 01:07 PM	#3
kurtfish Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: I work in the little Village of La Jolla Posts: 139	Thanks for the real world back-up Awsome job spelling it out for us non-science guys. The MLPA process was so one sided that our good showings of black shirts to try to counter balance the baby blue shirts was not very effective. My son was able to get a few good words in at the meetings and we left the following photos on the BRTF memeber tables but the faulty science fuled the day. Bob Fletcher and United Anglers continue their tireless work against the MLPA porcess on our behave. One lawsuit vistory so far that focused on the "closed door meetings" that were part of the review process and now the ongoing lawsuit focusing on the Environmental Quality Act which had the audacity to project no economic impact on the Southern California economy if the most restrictive MPAs were imposed. Talk about science without any real data to back it up. If we report no fish landed than cutting down our fishing areas and making us all fish on top of each other really should not impact our lack of sucess. Since we must all be idiots to spend so much time on the water not catching anything than restricting our fishing areas really should not impact our results or the commerical business associated with our fruitless efforts. This is the way the tree huggers think about what we love to do and this is what the scientsts reports allow them to justify with the inaccurate data they have collected. I am guilty as well as I have reported landings or lack there of many times but never once did I mention how many Macs I released after a cozy afternoon in my bait tank.

05-09-2011, 01:34 PM	#4
dos ballenas Vampyroteuthis infernalis Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 585	The Sportfishing Association of Ca, its current president Ken Franke, and its past president Bob Fletcher all support the research being done by the CADFG, NMFS, NOAA, port samplers, etc. There are many ways fishermen can become involved in helping fisheries biologists get better data. One way or another, they will always be data. YES, environmentalists will try to use any and all data to promote their agenda. But that doesn't mean fishermen can't use it to promote their agenda as well. __________________ ____________________________________________ Last edited by dos ballenas; 05-09-2011 at 02:37 PM.

05-09-2011, 07:55 PM	#5
Amish Ed Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Grants Pass, OR Posts: 1,903	It's funny, but whenever I talk to the clipboard ladies they seem surprised when I report that I release all my fish. Never the less I've always figured it couldn't hurt to talk to them. Thanks to Kurt I now know why. __________________ Amish Ed You can't catch it again if it's dead!

05-09-2011, 09:12 PM	#6
dorado50 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: La Jolla Shores Posts: 1,626	If I catch fish Im more than willing to talk to these people when I don't they seem to irratate me!! That's just the way it is.. Great info guys. Hopefully someday I can move past the irratation phase..

05-10-2011, 01:59 PM	#9
GregAndrew Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,384	While I don't believe in general that the clip board crew have an agenda, the data they gather is not scientific and will create statistics that will be used inacurately against us. Surveying is much less effective in creating useful statistics when there is a low responce rate. From what I have seen at the launches, that is the case. If the catch rates are relatively high, then we are going to be blamed for overfishing. If they are low then there are no more fish in the ocean. If 80% of anglers catch their target fish, then the other 20% will be the point of the other sides argument. In a protectionist political environment, it is better for us to provide less ammo for the other side. So the question is " Does my response provide more or less ammo to those who would close fishing?". I don't know what the best thing for us to do is, but I am pretty sure that information obtained from these surveys will not help us catch fish. Nor will it accurately determine fish populations. I am inclined to cooperate when I catch fish and decline when I don't.

05-10-2011, 02:16 PM	#10
Regor Greg Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chula Vista, ca Posts: 509	I've never seen "them", but I'm reading through this thread and hear assumptions going both ways, for them, against them. Every reputable organization usually has "the" pitch that they are told to use.... .. .. Hi, I'm Susie from Scripts Institute, and I'm here to do a survey ... blah blah blah. Hi, I'm Joe, your local DFG officer. Here to check your catch and license. So far I've heard no-one state who these folks really are, or who they say they are? Guess if I ever see the "clipboard lady" I'll have to pick her brain as much as she tries to pick mine

05-10-2011, 02:58 PM	#11
tagyak Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Alhambra Posts: 506	not to change the subject; Regor i just noticed your avatar. all this time i thought it was just two clown fish, i didn't notice that they were painted onto two peoples cheeks. that is really cool......

05-11-2011, 12:28 PM	#14
Margarita Mike Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 76	At this point, I really don't trust any of them. Who can you believe anymore? Sorry.

05-11-2011, 05:01 PM	#17
MuddyMike Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 111	ok, after re-reading it, i can see how it could have been taken that way. i was just reporting what i saw. the thought of her not being legit didn't even cross my mind. she even had a big metal fish measurer with her.

05-11-2011, 05:01 PM	#18
T Bone Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Redlands CA Posts: 871	I say just tell them the truth.If the other side wants to twist it so be it.Integrity is allways more important. I had a clipboard lady call me on the phone.It wasnt about what I caught,It was about where I fish.It was an economic impact survey. __________________ Barachit Baralah,Elohim-In the beginning,God-Genesis 1:1 "Who among you,if your son asked for a fish would give them a serpent " Jesus Matt. 7:10

05-11-2011, 07:02 PM	#19
dorado50 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: La Jolla Shores Posts: 1,626	You guys are classic. The sky is falling the sky is falling! X2......lmao

05-11-2011, 09:20 PM	#20
TCS Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 478	The last time I got questioned by the 'clipboard people' I didn't feel like talking. This girl who had seemed nice and cute starts to get all mad and she touches the secret button on her collar and a black unmarked van came roaring onto the beach. These navy seal types hopped out, threw me in the van and off we go. Next thing I know the damn van is lifting off, we leave the atmosphere to outer space behind the moon to be a friggin alien mothership. I won't gross you out with the other details of the abduction, except to say the the 'clipboard people' are not actually people at all and their 'survey' is really a part of a diabolical plan to take over and dominate our planet!