Arnie and his enviro cronies screwed us--AGAIN

[dorado50]

52 posts of pure garbage, come back when you got game....

[deepdvr]

Originally Posted by dorado50

52 posts of pure garbage, come back when you got game....

More like come back when your doc gets your meds straightened out. Or better yet, just disappear.

[steveooo]

Originally Posted by steveooo

If those beaches that you caught your Corbie and PB Leopard on were in danger of being put on the "No Fishing" list, would you speak up to fight for them Stan? If you actually spoke up to save them, and then found out what you care about doesn't really matter to those running this process, would that frustrate you?

Originally Posted by Stan K G

The beaches were on the block in earlier proposals, it would have sucked, but we have hundreds of MILES of great fishing beach up and down the coast and I know several great spots. I don't get emotionallly attached to a section of beach...lets me move around to find good fishing rather than get stuck if a beach is having a bad week.

So what you are saying is that you would just bend over and take it in the ass, while they took your fishing spots from you?
My guess is that this is not the first time you have bent over to take something in the A--

Originally Posted by Stan K G

Try dana point, it's supposed to be great from reports I've seen

Welcome to the board Stan, I fish Dana a good amount. Its decent there. I hope to fish with you one day there,

Bring your fly rod and your busted fishfinder.
Seriously....

For the record, Steveooo was in on this thread before it was locked 2x

[bellcon]

Sitting here remembering that list I was taught in class...
"The list of fallacious arguments"... Stan the man reeks of them...

one of the most common:
Ad Hominem (Argument To The Man): attacking the person instead of attacking his argument.
For example, "Stan's fews about MLPA's are worthless because he is an asshole" (Which is true, but that's not why they're worthless.)

Only on the super friendly site of BWE could this guy go on for so long...



P.S.
Stan,
sorry for being unfriendly... But I really think you are an asshole

[Tman]

Stan, you are incredible...the old saying, hook, line, and sinker...let's review and follow this rant... (though we all know at this point it is to no avail...)

Originally Posted by Stan K G

Hey, don't blame me for robs bad wording.
...yea
You guys have this AWESOME selective reading where all your condescending and dismissive crap is ignored
costs money, adds even more things to debate, which areas get it?
If all the proposed MPAs were to get a reef that would cost a lot in materials, ships and just basic planning to servey the sites.
First selective reading and now putting words in my mouth, good work!
Nice threat, and I'm the bad guy.
Makes all your anecdotes of you people being "reasonable" at the meetings realy trustworthy!

First of all, you had bad wording from the get go (think spellcheck).
If you misread Rob's quote, that would be on you. I was merely pointing the obvious facts, had you been there you would have seen it for yourself.

Next....

Also, had you read between the lines, you would have surely noticed the reference of my Son having respect for his elders...hmmm...yet you call Dorado an 'old man'?

Next...

Reefs cost money, more areas to debate? Are you serious? Did you see where the BRTF got to stay, catered lunches, dinners, and do you think they were doing all of that gratis? That serious $ could've been spent elsewhere, oh, gee, maybe increase funding for the DFG?

Now that is a concept. Increase presence, less poachers...sure you have an argument, er, disagreement with that though...

Next...

Selective reading, putting words in your mouth? Wow...denial is not a river in Eqypt. You came on here wanting to be informed of the whole process, folks did their best to enlighten you, yet here, 20 some odd posts later, you are an expert and formulated your own opinion just by doing some research.

Selective reading indeed...

Next...

Nice threat, now you're the bad guy? You came on asking for help to understand this mayhem, it was given, even offered via PM or picking up the phone, you seem to have entirely mislead us of your knowledge and data stored based on how quick your responses were, so now you want to come across as the victim, whoa is me, they are picking on me since I just asked a simple question.

And to touch on that,

It makes our anecdotes of us being "reasonable" at the meetings realy trustworthy?

Stan, check your spelling among other things. We have been reasonable and tolerant of not only this whole process, but you in general.

Not once did we try to deceive you. Talk about trustworthy.

Funny though, knew all along you would not be able to read between the lines.

Respect is earned, not given, and you have clearly demonstrated a lack of respect.

And true to form, you bit...

[The Kid]

Let me make this statement. From the time that the MLPA was dug back up from the dust covered shelves in the capital, and brought back to haunt the this generation of fisherman I have always been curious as to why the first course of action to encourage growth rates of pelagics, such as yellowtail, would not be taken into consideration before a complete closure was deemed the best option. The top option that should have and maybe or maybe not considered is to limit the keep of such species. For example in the white seabass restoration project, which I am sure you know about, is the perfect example for a successful restoration project. There is an obvious boom in populations presently and if you dont believe me heres some numbers for you page 33(http://www.dfg.ca.gov/marine/wsfmp/pdfs/wsfmp.pdf). If the take was restricted and length limits or slot limits were enforced would that not allowing for adequate breeding aged fish, boosting fish populations simply by increasing a certain species biomass in any ecosystem.
Is that not a valid reason to question the MLPA? To go to the most extreme restriction while spending 30 -40 million dollars a year to fund this program isn't that strange as well. Our government is corrupted there is no doubt about that. Who is getting the short end of the stick? The fisherman who are out there for sport while at the same time using the resources given them for their family who are spending their days stuck making enough to buy a kayak while keeping their family safe and have enough money to send off to our politicians who are are making this country more and more in debt with each breathe I take. Some of us don't make the same amount of money as are "trusted" politicians. So who in this day and age has the swing in the vote. If I stepped up to a podium at the capital and said my peace and during my speech Sigourney Weaver shakes her head in disagreement who is going to have the greater influence. Now to say this analogy is absurd is false in several meetings this is exactly what is going on. With many members appointed in the regional stakeholder group (RSG), a science advisory team (SAT), the California Department of Fish and Game, MLPA Initiative staff, the public and a policy-level blue ribbon task force (BRTF) simply in their head passing off fisherman public comments because they don't have a fancy title to show importance. So I ask you MLPA supporters, in this debate what is fair? To shut off local saltwater fishing (the productive areas of course), or to limit it. Both we assume to have the same results the only concern is time. Sure it may take longer, but if you keep both sides happy is not more productive than pleasing one side and having anarchy and resentment within your community?

[Tman]

Black, pink, and green abalone?

They were not overfished, they were overpoached!

Nor Cal has a slot limit, with seasons, limit of daily take, and max per year.
The ab population in Nor Cal is very healthy, as is the urchin population (missed that one).

Had there been strict regulations of take, which I am certain would've helped, and better enforcement, we could still be getting them.

Do some research on poachers who have gotten caught with abalone for transport out of this country, see how many times they were caught, then come back again when you want some more...

As far as BSB, wow...grasping at straws there Stan...maybe because they are slow growers who get to massive size, friendly, and generally lethargic creatures is the reason they are protected. That and the fact that if you don't take great care in releasing them they could die might be another...

Go ahead, do your research, sure you will have a rebuttal for this too...

BTW, take is still 1 per day in Mexico waters, please start firing off some rants and facts to the Mexican fisheries on that one.

WSB? Funding...hmm...fishing license revenue, fishing tournaments, awareness, outreach, all have helped the rebound of these fish. These same people that catch stock, help with the program, donate their time, monitor and care for the fish want them to thrive...why do you think that is Stan?

BTW Stan, do you even own a kayak?

I may be wrong, but I think I have it figured out...

Did your mommy tell you to go play on the freeway one too many times?

[Billy V]

lmao -

You're a funny guy stan.
Did you shoot dope before you posted on this thread ?

[Gino]

Originally Posted by Stan K G

Southern California Steelhead (endangered)

Black Abalone (endangered)

Bocaccio

cowcod

green abalone

pink abalone

Yelloweye Rockfish

Canary rockfish

Giant (black) sea bass

I'm sure I missed some.

Cowcod If i remeber right are off limits to take... so thats ones solved. And if you were a kayak fisherman youd know damn well the Black Sea Bass arent endangered, those are also off limits to take so problem solved there.

Dont think anyone here has caught any Abalone from there kayak... thats right becuase they restrict the take on those too And they dont take fin bait...
The rockfish Fisheries are just fine. and the kayak take of those specieies mentiond is very small (less than a ton a year statewide)

Stealhead? those are endanrged due to damning the rivers and turning them into drainage systems for farming irrigation. Whats funny is there used to be Stealhead ay the rivermouth here in Dana point. they destroyed the san juan river. so no more stealhead. no MLPA is going to bring that back...

So there you ago, any other endangered species? many of thsoe rockfish species are caught well outide the MLPA map zones anyways so the MLPA doesnt help them either.

You still have no case!

[Gino]

Maybe if we give this guy a Joint and a Guitar hell go away.

[deepdvr]

Stan, why so much flip-flopping?????

Remember this thread you started?

Stan K G
Member

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 56


san diegito lagoon/river?

---

anyone take a yak to fish in there? any luck?

-----------------------------------------

deepdvr
Senior Member

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Carlsbad
Posts: 221




All this info is on the DFG website. There are maps as well:

Existing Marine Protected Areas in California: Regulations

San Diego County	SPECIES PROHIBITED For Recreational Take	SPECIES ALLOWED For Recreational Take
Buena Vista Lagoon State Marine Park (estuarine)	Kelp	Marine aquatic plants EXCEPT kelp; Invertebrates in designated times and in designated areas; Finfish by hook and line during designated times and in designated areas
Agua Hedionda Lagoon State Marine Reserve (estuarine)	All	None
Batiquitos Lagoon State Marine Park (estuarine)	All marine aquatic plants; All invertebrates	Finfish by hook and line from shore
Encinitas State Marine Conservation Area	All marine aquatic plants; All invertebrates	Finfish
Cardiff-San Elijo State Marine Conservation Area	All marine aquatic plants; All invertebrates EXCEPT chiones, clams, cockles, rock scallops, native oysters, crabs, lobster, ghost shrimp, sea urchins, mussels, and marine worms1	Chiones, clams, cockles, rock scallops, native oysters, crabs, lobster, ghost shrimp, sea urchins, mussels, and marine worms1; Finfish
San Elijo Lagoon State Marine Park (estuarine)	All marine aquatic plants; All invertebrates	Finfish by hook and line from shore
San Dieguito Lagoon State Marine Park (estuarine)	All marine aquatic plants; All invertebrates	Finfish by hook and line from shore and the Grand Avenue Bridge
San Diego-Scripps State Marine Conservation Area	All marine aquatic plants; All invertebrates	Finfish
La Jolla State Marine Conservation Area	All	None
Mia J. Tegner State Marine Conservation Area	All marine aquatic plants; All invertebrates	Finfish

-------------------------------------------

Stan K G
Member

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 56




Booo!

-------------------------------------

Stan K G
Member

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 56




bummer...is the san diego river outlet off limits too?

---------------------------------------

Stan K G
Member

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 56




I just want a winter sight fishing spot once the corbina take off.



It's all about you isn't it Stan. You're a freakin hypocrite.

[The Kid]

Originally Posted by Stan K G

Err, ok.

No offense, but did any fishermen try to represent our side in a level-headed matter without all this tea party Lite talk?

I'm going to get my ass chewed off for this, but people tend to ignore the side that doesn't debait the points and just rants about how everyone else is evil and corrupt and ruining america. It's great for republican primaries, don't get me wrong, but doesn't work for much else.

(And please dont start blaming mexicans and muslims for the MLPA)

But it is important to discuss that because the fact is our leaders are making decisions for all of us. To say that it serves for republicans who gives a shit. However the decisions made should be made to serve the community justice not one side or the other. Did you know more tax dollars are spent on prisons than education? Who the hell allowed that to happen. hmmmm oh yeah government officials. So to deny the importance of acknowledging a dollar based decision process within our government is being ignorant.
p.s. im not a tea party supporter

[The Kid]

Originally Posted by Stan K G

Except you're wrong...can't even follow existing regs.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/marine/bfregs2010.asp#south

COWCOD ARE PROTECTED,you cant keep them, says in the info you provided! we arent misinformed you are

[Billy V]

[The Kid]

Originally Posted by Stan K G

So, I have to love the closures?

Sorry, guess I'm just more grown up than most of you guys; I can not like something, while still understanding its purpose, and not throw a tantrum calling the government tyranical...for protecting a lagoon.

but do you really think it serves a profitable purpose

[Gino]

You asked for endangered species in the MPA area...I gave them. Steelhead migration paterns aren't known once they leave the rivers. And the MPAs would make some of the lagoons they use to grow out a no-fish area.

No becuase those Lagoons are not allowed to be included in the MPA becuase they are man made, And i remember something that had to do with Polution. At the Laguna meeting I talked about this with a guy who was apart of some Steelhead project and he wanted to protect the Aliso beach river spot and wanted to see if it would be included in the MPA. Based on all 3 maps it wasnt, the cosures stopped there. Thats why there is no fishing piers included in these MPA reserves

Stealhead migrations arent known once they leave the rivers? Well thats becuase there is no stealhead! And there is no more rivers! the MLPA wont fix either of those problems. How can you not understand that? I asked for exmaples of stealhead fish species in the Southern Section. Steelhead are largely near extinct becuase well, there is no rivers for them to spawn... Of course there is no way to track there migrations, especially in southern California. the MLPA plays no part in that issue


NOAA has no way of tracking Kayakfishing Catch #s. thats my point.... Its largely pennys comparend to commercial or sport boat fishing. We are talking about Kayakfishing here buddy. the NOAA will give you nothing in that form of imformation, only specualtions.
The MPA doesnt extend protection to the Juvenile rockfish, any more than what protection they have today.
Humboldt Squid have more to do with low rockfish Numbers than recreational fishing...If you knew how much those little rockfish those Squid eat, You regulating the squid on what they eat. Good luck on that one.

Your saying poachers cant poach if they cant go to the protected Abalone in the MPA, As if someone is going to be there watching... There no enforcement, theres no plans or funding for any enforcement of these Reserves, and Poachers will Poach Regardless of the any MPA... So you MPA reserve Bouys wont stop the bad guys.

[Gino]

Off topic

[Gino]

Originally Posted by Stan K G

Well, polls show that the majority likes the MLPA

http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/lm...oll_demon.html

Voters, by pushing for ultra tough sentencing for non-violent crimes. Yeah it feels nice, but then you gotta pay the cost of housing those people.



Err, the tea party rant that "government is evil" is not an acknowledgment of government decision making...it's a rant.

Also, fun fact; privatizing prisons increases cost. Prop 19 would actually help reduce prison costs because people would stop getting jailed for pot posession.

\


acually the prisons cost so much becuase of the Prison Gaurds Union. That was Jerry Brown, he did that one some Eons ago..

The guys getting thrown into prison for Pot are the big pushers or illegal smugglers... Not the average guy with a dime sack. Jail and Prison are completely differant. If your smuggling out of country thats Federal offense. the states prop 19 wont save that guy.


Way off topic.

[zenspearo]

LMAO.

This Stan guy personifies the cliche of an attention-seeking troll. What's amazing is the mod allowed him to carry on this long.

First he pretended to ask a question. Then he egged everyone into arguing with partisan drivels that show his true color.

He recited his party line well, I grant him that. What's telling is none of his points are original--zero evidence of original thinking. The same ka-ka we all heard before and dealt with when it mattered except it's clumsily delivered here.

He doesn't care how much of an asshat he's coming across with this audience because he basks in the glow of negative attention he created. Beat him down with logic, and all that was accomplished was wasted time and winning against an idiot.

This is when some mod action would be highly useful so this site can get back to its mission of serving kayakfishermen.

[The Kid]

I cant use that poll info that you provided to justify your reasoning. it is biased in my opinion. But 7% of tax dollars spent on education really versus 11% for prisons? anyways lets leave that one out back to topic