Arnie and his enviro cronies screwed us--AGAIN

[Gino]

Hey i was only stating a fact which is true. I put no partisan Endorsement on my post... Thats the part where you came in touting your "Tea Party" Acusations... And your Post about Muslim or Mexicans was highly Racist. Not sure where that came from.

If you read the origional post of this thread it talked about the Governors influence on the MLPA process, so naturally talking about the Governors Race and its canidates makes sense. Considering things could change extremely. I gave a critical opions on both of them. And I made the closing point of that when i said the next governor has and will have more important issues than the MLPA to worry about. So putting our chips in that direction isnt going to do us much good.,

And I told you, Id be willing to explain the problems with the maps for you. I sent you a PM and a phone number. so we could spare this thread the posting stress.

(then there's the problem of some of you guys wanting no preserves at all, even existing ones, so that's some counter extemism to the extreme environmentalists)

There was men fishing feeding there Families long before there was a "Marine Reserve" Not sure thats counter Extremeism. We arent telling the Enviormentalist what they can or cant do. We are telling them what they cant do to us. Like I said Your clearly uneducated on the issue. Ill even go to the extent of saying you may have a warped view on what public process is about. Or how it works.

Why dont you tell us where your comming from. Since you clearly cant comprehend our side of the issue. . What facts do you bring to the table to support the MLPA closures and the current Maps selections. What Science do you have to back up your opinion. And Lets here your Ideas.
You havent Asked 1 question, all youve done is talk shit.

And for the record. If venting and ranting got us a free soda from Burger King, Itd be alot more than what we got from having an "inteligent Dialect" and "reaching across the Isle" or what you call "reasonable compromise" ever got us in this process

So lets hear it. Why are the MLPA maps to you a good compromise? dont be shy.

[T Bone]

Stan, since your new you are going to get a pass...

I have been dealing mainly with my sons cancer this last year and havent had the opportunity to go to many meetings.I did make it to the one in Ontario at the Doubletree and got to meet many of you there.I can say that Kayak fisherman and Spearos were about 90% of the turnout for our side.No one really representing sportboat landings that I meet(who have a monetary stake in this)none of the Newport Lobster fleet(who will lose Laguna)just a few other fisherman.
You are literally speaking DIRECTLY to the ones fighting the fight for fisherman right here.A very clean fight too I might add.So thats a little something for you to chew on before you go any further.

To my brothers in arms
We will raise up our glasses against evil forces...

[deepdvr]

Stan, why be so combative? Obviously, your views are not those of just about everyone on this forum. It's time to let this one die on the vine. You are not going to convert anyone here.

This is a very sensitive topic for everyone on this forum. There are other means of fostering 'conservation' that don't involve restricting access. We've been advocating this from day one. There is a reason we have a department of fish and game and regulations. This is simply a land grab by the other side.

As was stated before, you are new here but don't make the rookie mistake off stepping in this one. Many here have devoted a tremendous amount of time, money, lost wages, etc. to the cause.

[Gino]

Originally Posted by Stan K G

Well thanks for wasting my time.

Thought you were a reasonable person, but looks like you're one of the zero-conservation extremists that don't give a crap about maintaining our fisheries beyond your own lifetime.

And you'll dismiss any research I bring up, without any logical justification...Other than you don't agree with it.

(Also love your whining about "enviromentalists" telling you what you cannot do when you seemingly complained about "san francisco" judges, ie, Prop 8 getting overturned?)

And Aparently you dont know anything about fish either. You think Fish species sit on the same kelp all there life? maybe blue perch do
Take a hike buddy, Conservation could have been done in other ways, lowering fishing limits, or increasing slot sizes. Not closing down the sections of the ocean to no fishing in general. Fish have tails my friend. Soem of those "kelp Species" can swim a couple miles or more a day.
Thats the point buddy. There is no logical Science behind this MLPA process. alot of the science used in this process had alot of hole in it. There is no threatened fish species along our coast.

Do you know where the 9th circuit court of apeals is? I could have been clearly speaking amongst other things. I said nothing about Prop 8. And it has no buisness in this thread. You brought it up.

When a Gorilla comes to you door and grabs your lunch bag, lets see you have a "Reasonable conversation"... Your clearly some sorta Latte Lifting Enviormetal Lefty. Or some guy just looking to flex his internet testosterone. or both rather.

So spare everyone here the headache and the time and get lost. I was more than willing to answer your questions. And still am if your willing to man up and talk like a big boy.

[Grego]

What the F...seems like the enviros are hunting and fishing around this board AGAIN with this stan man and bmercury login names

[Grego]

Originally Posted by Grego

What the F...seems like the enviros are hunting and fishing around this board AGAIN with this stan man and bmercury login names

Told you sooo....

Lambchopmod, you should delete this guy's comments, he's still happy his posts are going to be up for a long long long time...

[lambadmin]

Originally Posted by Grego

Told you sooo....

Lambchopmod, you should delete this guy's comments, he's still happy his posts are going to be up for a long long long time...

at your service, master Grego

[Tman]

Originally Posted by Stan K G

What?
All I got so far was
a) we're angry
b) we've been angry a long time now
c) one of us out-argued an elementary school teacher and her students

First of all Stan, or Ken, or Meg, whatever your 'moniker' is, I hope you are not referring to my Son (...c) one of us out-argued an elementary school teacher and her students...).

Had you been there, maybe you were, he did not argue with anyone, he made valid points on his own. You misinterpreted the post that was made and it did sound like you were implying that my Son argued with elders (a teacher, albeit a misguided one at that).

If anything, the only disrespect shown was by Ken Wiseman towards my Son, but I did have a talk with Ken after the 'extensive public input' session.

Or maybe you were at the smurfrider meeting in Encinitas who again insulted a youngster for speaking up for what he believes in.

Funny how a ton of people spoke up for what they believe in, only to get chided by you for their views.

Question for you though Stan...at one of the meetings, I asked the BRTF members directly why it was never considered creating an artificial reef to increase our 'declining' fish population, and was told that there was not a guarantee it would work. How do you know if you don't try? Sure seems the one off San O turned out nice.

So, based on your rants, are you saying that a reef should not be considered, and the only way to increase the population is to go to drastics measures before any other thought is taken into consideration?

Did like one of your comments though...you know, this one...

Originally Posted by Stan K G

Well thanks for wasting my time.

Thought you were a reasonable person, but looks like you're one of the zero-conservation extremists that don't give a crap about maintaining our fisheries beyond your own lifetime.

Take your ball and go home...

Maybe I'll run into ya at Torrey Pines some day...

[Tman]

Stan, you are incredible...the old saying, hook, line, and sinker...let's review and follow this rant... (though we all know at this point it is to no avail...)

Originally Posted by Stan K G

Hey, don't blame me for robs bad wording.
...yea
You guys have this AWESOME selective reading where all your condescending and dismissive crap is ignored
costs money, adds even more things to debate, which areas get it?
If all the proposed MPAs were to get a reef that would cost a lot in materials, ships and just basic planning to servey the sites.
First selective reading and now putting words in my mouth, good work!
Nice threat, and I'm the bad guy.
Makes all your anecdotes of you people being "reasonable" at the meetings realy trustworthy!

First of all, you had bad wording from the get go (think spellcheck).
If you misread Rob's quote, that would be on you. I was merely pointing the obvious facts, had you been there you would have seen it for yourself.

Next....

Also, had you read between the lines, you would have surely noticed the reference of my Son having respect for his elders...hmmm...yet you call Dorado an 'old man'?

Next...

Reefs cost money, more areas to debate? Are you serious? Did you see where the BRTF got to stay, catered lunches, dinners, and do you think they were doing all of that gratis? That serious $ could've been spent elsewhere, oh, gee, maybe increase funding for the DFG?

Now that is a concept. Increase presence, less poachers...sure you have an argument, er, disagreement with that though...

Next...

Selective reading, putting words in your mouth? Wow...denial is not a river in Eqypt. You came on here wanting to be informed of the whole process, folks did their best to enlighten you, yet here, 20 some odd posts later, you are an expert and formulated your own opinion just by doing some research.

Selective reading indeed...

Next...

Nice threat, now you're the bad guy? You came on asking for help to understand this mayhem, it was given, even offered via PM or picking up the phone, you seem to have entirely mislead us of your knowledge and data stored based on how quick your responses were, so now you want to come across as the victim, whoa is me, they are picking on me since I just asked a simple question.

And to touch on that,

It makes our anecdotes of us being "reasonable" at the meetings realy trustworthy?

Stan, check your spelling among other things. We have been reasonable and tolerant of not only this whole process, but you in general.

Not once did we try to deceive you. Talk about trustworthy.

Funny though, knew all along you would not be able to read between the lines.

Respect is earned, not given, and you have clearly demonstrated a lack of respect.

And true to form, you bit...

[Tman]

Black, pink, and green abalone?

They were not overfished, they were overpoached!

Nor Cal has a slot limit, with seasons, limit of daily take, and max per year.
The ab population in Nor Cal is very healthy, as is the urchin population (missed that one).

Had there been strict regulations of take, which I am certain would've helped, and better enforcement, we could still be getting them.

Do some research on poachers who have gotten caught with abalone for transport out of this country, see how many times they were caught, then come back again when you want some more...

As far as BSB, wow...grasping at straws there Stan...maybe because they are slow growers who get to massive size, friendly, and generally lethargic creatures is the reason they are protected. That and the fact that if you don't take great care in releasing them they could die might be another...

Go ahead, do your research, sure you will have a rebuttal for this too...

BTW, take is still 1 per day in Mexico waters, please start firing off some rants and facts to the Mexican fisheries on that one.

WSB? Funding...hmm...fishing license revenue, fishing tournaments, awareness, outreach, all have helped the rebound of these fish. These same people that catch stock, help with the program, donate their time, monitor and care for the fish want them to thrive...why do you think that is Stan?

BTW Stan, do you even own a kayak?

I may be wrong, but I think I have it figured out...

Did your mommy tell you to go play on the freeway one too many times?

[The Kid]

Originally Posted by Stan K G

Err, ok.

No offense, but did any fishermen try to represent our side in a level-headed matter without all this tea party Lite talk?

I'm going to get my ass chewed off for this, but people tend to ignore the side that doesn't debait the points and just rants about how everyone else is evil and corrupt and ruining america. It's great for republican primaries, don't get me wrong, but doesn't work for much else.

(And please dont start blaming mexicans and muslims for the MLPA)

But it is important to discuss that because the fact is our leaders are making decisions for all of us. To say that it serves for republicans who gives a shit. However the decisions made should be made to serve the community justice not one side or the other. Did you know more tax dollars are spent on prisons than education? Who the hell allowed that to happen. hmmmm oh yeah government officials. So to deny the importance of acknowledging a dollar based decision process within our government is being ignorant.
p.s. im not a tea party supporter

[Gino]

You asked for endangered species in the MPA area...I gave them. Steelhead migration paterns aren't known once they leave the rivers. And the MPAs would make some of the lagoons they use to grow out a no-fish area.

No becuase those Lagoons are not allowed to be included in the MPA becuase they are man made, And i remember something that had to do with Polution. At the Laguna meeting I talked about this with a guy who was apart of some Steelhead project and he wanted to protect the Aliso beach river spot and wanted to see if it would be included in the MPA. Based on all 3 maps it wasnt, the cosures stopped there. Thats why there is no fishing piers included in these MPA reserves

Stealhead migrations arent known once they leave the rivers? Well thats becuase there is no stealhead! And there is no more rivers! the MLPA wont fix either of those problems. How can you not understand that? I asked for exmaples of stealhead fish species in the Southern Section. Steelhead are largely near extinct becuase well, there is no rivers for them to spawn... Of course there is no way to track there migrations, especially in southern California. the MLPA plays no part in that issue


NOAA has no way of tracking Kayakfishing Catch #s. thats my point.... Its largely pennys comparend to commercial or sport boat fishing. We are talking about Kayakfishing here buddy. the NOAA will give you nothing in that form of imformation, only specualtions.
The MPA doesnt extend protection to the Juvenile rockfish, any more than what protection they have today.
Humboldt Squid have more to do with low rockfish Numbers than recreational fishing...If you knew how much those little rockfish those Squid eat, You regulating the squid on what they eat. Good luck on that one.

Your saying poachers cant poach if they cant go to the protected Abalone in the MPA, As if someone is going to be there watching... There no enforcement, theres no plans or funding for any enforcement of these Reserves, and Poachers will Poach Regardless of the any MPA... So you MPA reserve Bouys wont stop the bad guys.

[zenspearo]

LMAO.

This Stan guy personifies the cliche of an attention-seeking troll. What's amazing is the mod allowed him to carry on this long.

First he pretended to ask a question. Then he egged everyone into arguing with partisan drivels that show his true color.

He recited his party line well, I grant him that. What's telling is none of his points are original--zero evidence of original thinking. The same ka-ka we all heard before and dealt with when it mattered except it's clumsily delivered here.

He doesn't care how much of an asshat he's coming across with this audience because he basks in the glow of negative attention he created. Beat him down with logic, and all that was accomplished was wasted time and winning against an idiot.

This is when some mod action would be highly useful so this site can get back to its mission of serving kayakfishermen.

[Gino]

Off topic

[Gino]

Originally Posted by Stan K G

Well, polls show that the majority likes the MLPA

http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/lm...oll_demon.html

Voters, by pushing for ultra tough sentencing for non-violent crimes. Yeah it feels nice, but then you gotta pay the cost of housing those people.



Err, the tea party rant that "government is evil" is not an acknowledgment of government decision making...it's a rant.

Also, fun fact; privatizing prisons increases cost. Prop 19 would actually help reduce prison costs because people would stop getting jailed for pot posession.

\


acually the prisons cost so much becuase of the Prison Gaurds Union. That was Jerry Brown, he did that one some Eons ago..

The guys getting thrown into prison for Pot are the big pushers or illegal smugglers... Not the average guy with a dime sack. Jail and Prison are completely differant. If your smuggling out of country thats Federal offense. the states prop 19 wont save that guy.


Way off topic.

[The Kid]

I cant use that poll info that you provided to justify your reasoning. it is biased in my opinion. But 7% of tax dollars spent on education really versus 11% for prisons? anyways lets leave that one out back to topic

[The Kid]

Originally Posted by Stan K G

the poll was designed by an anti-MLPA group...how much less biased against your direction can it be?

this poll that you used i found another part you forgot to mention. the same organization that did this study also said this.

"The Alliance of Communities for Sustainable Fisheries (ACSF) has released the results of a national public opinion poll revealing the public’s attitudes about ocean conservation which found that the public strongly wants the ocean to be protected, but not with total marine closures.

Respondents expressed a reluctance to place the ocean off limits to human use if those areas and the resources can be used sustainably. The public does support placing areas off limits to all human use, but only if it is to protect rare and fragile habitats, where no sustainable use is possible. And researchers found that the level of support for both commercial and recreational fishing remains strong.

“The public doesn’t support laws or regulations that hurt the nation’s small, independent fishermen or recreational fishing activities,” said Vern Goehring, manager of the California Fisheries Coalition. “They want smart management of marine ecosystems, not total ocean closures that hurt local economies.”
http://www.alliancefisheries.com/pub...22%202009.html

the info was translated into an article that was biased and left out information pertinent to the subject.

[ZUMAN]

This ASSCLOWN is also starting crap and getting threads locked
on scsurffishing as well

http://www.scsurffishing.com/forums/...ic.php?t=64606

[steveooo]

Originally Posted by Stan K G

So what's the problem with the MLPA?

Disregarding your previous posts- I'll try to break it down to one of the basic, basic problems. There are deeper problems, but I'll just keep it simple and address your question from my perspective.

You appear to be a surf fisherman? Nice corbie and leo from your previous posts.





What beaches did you catch them on? Are they special beaches to you? Good memories there? Nice variety of fish? Have you seen whether those beaches are affected by the proposed MPA's? That would suck for you if they were closed, no?

You ever shore fish any other areas? Laguna Beach up in the OC? I fish there pretty frequently. Its awesome up there. A couple of reasons why I love it there
1- I've Never been dealt the Helmet, even if I only swing by for a quick 10 min lunch session.
2- Cool variety of fish- You never know what could be on the end of your line
3- Awesome coastline.
4- My wife caught her first surf fish there
5- Its got good family friendly beaches that I can bring my wife and daughter to, and spend a few minutes surf fishing.

Laguna is very special to me for many reasons.

Unfortunately, if you've never been up to fish @ Laguna, you better do it quickly. It's on the chopping block. Which part? The whole part. Based off of what scientific data? A few old ladies that go swimming and claim that they are seeing less fish there than they did in the 80's.

You asked for specific reasons- That is just one. There are plenty of guys that have their favorite fishing spot, especially kayak accessible spots, on the chopping block through this whole process. I think the frustration you are seeing is that the guys that were involved in the process from early on, saw how little the input from the public really mattered, and that there were other intentions that were driving the process.

If those beaches that you caught your Corbie and PB Leopard on were in danger of being put on the "No Fishing" list, would you speak up to fight for them Stan? If you actually spoke up to save them, and then found out what you care about doesn't really matter to those running this process, would that frustrate you?

I'm seriously asking those last two questions and would like your honest answer Stan, not just hypothetically throwing them out there to prove a point.

And for the record- Steveooo in IN on this thread before it gets locked

[steveooo]

Originally Posted by steveooo

If those beaches that you caught your Corbie and PB Leopard on were in danger of being put on the "No Fishing" list, would you speak up to fight for them Stan? If you actually spoke up to save them, and then found out what you care about doesn't really matter to those running this process, would that frustrate you?

Originally Posted by Stan K G

The beaches were on the block in earlier proposals, it would have sucked, but we have hundreds of MILES of great fishing beach up and down the coast and I know several great spots. I don't get emotionallly attached to a section of beach...lets me move around to find good fishing rather than get stuck if a beach is having a bad week.

So what you are saying is that you would just bend over and take it in the ass, while they took your fishing spots from you?
My guess is that this is not the first time you have bent over to take something in the A--

Originally Posted by Stan K G

Try dana point, it's supposed to be great from reports I've seen

Welcome to the board Stan, I fish Dana a good amount. Its decent there. I hope to fish with you one day there,

Bring your fly rod and your busted fishfinder.
Seriously....

For the record, Steveooo was in on this thread before it was locked 2x