LJ Reds and almost Ling 8/12
 

Lots of people out on Saturday, I stayed away from the crowd until I got limits of rockfish and almost had my first lingcod but he shook the hook at the surface. I brought a friend out in my spare kayak, poor guy was sick and puking the whole time so he headed in early and hung out on the beach. Then headed towards the NW corner with a 6" mac on the flyline... I still haven't gotten a bite on my flylined mac... There were a ton of boats and kayaks out but still cant figure out if its just my setup or luck. I'm using 65lb braid with a 50lb flouro topshot, #4hook and 2oz sliding egg sinker to get him down a bit... am I missing something? Maybe I just need to put more time in as that's where I figure out something new everyday. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Mike

50# fluoro may be overkill.

I was thinking the same thing... maybe 30?

Eh, in my very uneducated opinion, I think a lot of saltwater guys are way over rigged for the size fish they are after.

I'm consistently rigged with either 10lbs Flouro on my bass sticks, or 25lbs flouro on my "yellow/game fish" sticks. Any heavy stuff like vertical jig or drop loop rigs, its 30lbs MAX, and sometimes I even under rig with just 25lbs mono.

Know your terminal knot and drag setting are far and beyond more important to landing a large fish than your line. It may take you a little longer to land that 35lbs yellow on 25lbs flouro, but he bit the 25lbs line in the first place.... ;)

Still slowly figuring things out myself caught a big wsb Friday with 25lb there's a picture I posted in a report don't know the weight people on the beach said 40-50 and 30-40

Thanks guys for the info! @ Carnevale nice WSB! Congratulations! I'm going to rig lighter and see what happens.

Equipment
 

What would be lowest size equipment you need for rock to YT .

I use a completely different setup for bottom fishing. Shimano Trevala with Baitrunner 8000, 40 lb braid to 20 lb flouro. Had lots of luck with a small jig with cut bait on the hook.

Eh, I'd use different gear for yellows. It's really all in how you fish for them though.

Example: I'm going to flyline for them 50% of the time. I can use a 8' XH swimbait bass stick for that. A 300 sized reel with a clicker and you're set. Or, the other 50% of the time, throw a standard surface jig or subsurface blade that I'm going to work like a rip bait (coltsniper or squish jig) and for that I 'm comfortable using a 8' MH offshore stick.

For Rocks/Bottom fishing, I'm going to almost always use a shorter, more stout H or XH stick. That way it can more comfortably handle the weight it takes to get the bait to lower depths (plus that's almost always vertical fishing, IMO the longer rod the more cumbersome that technique gets.)

The only crossover I can see is if you are rock fishing in shallower waters, and don't need to throw 12oz of weight, you could very easily do that with the same rig you throw your subsurface jigs with.

Also, I think a lot more of my terminal and line when it comes to techniques. I just make sure my rod and reel can support my line needs...

:linesnap:

I think these fish are onto braid. I use spectra with 100 yards top shot of 40lb mono and then 35lb flouro leader. Don't use any weight just fly line the mackerel with a circle hook. Better yet put one fly line on one side and one weighted down with 3-4 oz sinker. That way you cover both water columns but you will find out most of the bites will be on the fly line

In the summertime, it's not that complicated. Hard to say what you need to change with such limited info but here are some ideas:

1. Ditch the weight. Flyline means line and a hook with a bait at the end. No weights.

2. Catch plenty of greenbacks (25 of them is a good number for a day in La Jolla) and keep them happy/healthy. Don't throw them in a home depot bucket full of water, don't squeeze the shit out of them, and don't drag around the same half dead mac for hours. Drop directly from the sabiki into the bait tank. Throw back the bleeders. Lively greenbacks are key.

3. Drop to 30 lb flouro.

4. #4 hook is small. Try a ringed 1/0 hook.

5. Fish the right areas. If you aren't keyed in, then cover ground. If you're sitting at the edge of the MPA in one spot all day or in the same spot in the middle of the canyon all day, you're not giving yourself a good shot. Try trolling that greenback about 100 feet behind you from the front of La Valencia around south to marine street, for example, in 60 feet of water. When you reach the end of the road, turn around and troll back to La Valencia in 70 feet of water. Then back to marine in 80, and so on until you're fishing in 120 or deeper. Do that for 8-10 hours a few weekends in a row and see if you don't get bit.

[QUOTE=The pelican;284427]In the summertime, it's not that complicated. Hard to say what you need to change with such limited info but here are some ideas:

1. Ditch the weight. Flyline means line and a hook with a bait at the end. No weights.

2. Catch plenty of greenbacks (25 of them is a good number for a day in La Jolla) and keep them happy/healthy. Don't throw them in a home depot bucket full of water, don't squeeze the shit out of them, and don't drag around the same half dead mac for hours. Drop directly from the sabiki into the bait tank. Throw back the bleeders. Lively greenbacks are key.

3. Drop to 30 lb flouro.

4. #4 hook is small. Try a ringed 1/0 hook.

5. Fish the right areas. If you aren't keyed in, then cover ground. If you're sitting at the edge of the MPA in one spot all day or in the same spot in the middle of the canyon all day, you're not giving yourself a good shot. Try trolling that greenback about 100 feet behind you from the front of La Valencia around south to marine street, for example, in 60 feet of water. When you reach the end of the road, turn around and troll back to La Valencia in 70 feet of water. Then back to marine in 80, and so on until you're fishing in 120 or deeper. Do that for 8-10 hours a few weekends in a row and see if you

25 green backs in a kayak bait tank?

30# is the sweet spot for me. I'll put out a 25# if the fish are being finicky. No Weight flyline

[QUOTE=ultimatejay;284468]UltimateJay - Yes! Having plenty of lively baits is key. You'll read reports on this site of guys who will go out, catch 6 macs, and start fishing for the day. In my experience, that doesn't make much sense. Of course there are times when it's hard to find them. But catch as many as you can keep alive and healthy for the entire day, before you start fishing, if they are around. Then put away the sabiki for the day and forget about multitasking. Catch bait for the day, then catch yellowtail without interruption.

Obviously the number of baits depends on the size of the macs and the livewell you're using. My Hobie tank can hold quite a few. If you're catching smaller greenies, the tank's pumping lots of water, bleeders are thrown back, and you're handling them with care (consider using a sabiki de-hooker so you don't need to touch them); they will stay lively all day long.

Regularly check to sure the water is really pumping into the tank. Keep a section of plastic tubing on the kayak to press against the water intake, take a deep breath, and blow against the pump as hard as you can to clear any grass that might be sucked up against the intake under the kayak. Get used to how the pump sounds when it's working properly and stay aware of any changes to the noise it makes (which may indicate a blockage). That can really limit the amount of water that's making it's way into the tank and suffocate your baits.

Also, use a small bait net to quickly scoop up a mac when you need a fresh one. Don't chase them all over the tank with your hand. If you're using your hand, you'll spend more time in the tank scaring them. You'll squeeze the hell out of a bunch that will slip away. And you'll almost certainly catch the slowest baits if you're using your hand. The best pieces will be left in the tank at the end of the day.

Look at the color of their backs. For some reason, the weaker baits (maybe those that were injured) are a darker color. The better baits in the tank have a lighter colored back. You'll really notice the difference if you're short on baits and reel one and put it back in the tank to get away from a dog, for example. The mac that was used already will stand out against the others due to it's darker color.

Hopefully this helps.

You guys are awesome. Thanks for sharing. I cant wait to get back out there in a couple days and try some new tricks.
Mike

Sure thing. Also, the yellowtail in La Jolla are not "onto braid". If you're fishing near kelp, you'll want to use a flouro leader but skip the mono topshot. Yellowtail aren't going to pass up your bait because they see your powerpro 5 feet above your bait. But they will be lost if you're trying to cut kelp with that mono top shot.

My friend and I went to La Jolla last month when everyone said it was slow. My 10 year old son and I caught 4 yellowtail that day and my friend who was fishing right next to me didn't catch anything. Only difference was I was using mono top shot with flouro leader and he was using braid with flouro leader. You be the judge 😉

It sounds like you're mistaken but I'd recommend doing whatever you think works best for you and gives you the most confidence on the water. A 4 yellowtail day is a great day at La Jolla but there are many people on this forum who've had many days like that or better. It can take a long time to draw conclusions about what works and what doesn't. Be careful about reading too much into one day on the water.

I fish braid to flouro near kelp and have caught plenty of yellowtail and not found them to be turned off by the braided line that consistently allows me to cut fish out of the kelp. Braided line also lets me feel the bait much better. I can sense when it's nervous and know a few seconds before I get bit (more often than not). Those are two big advantages when it comes to hooking and landing these fish.

In the wintertime mono works great in open water when dropping irons, for example. You can pull way harder, don't need to cut kelp, and don't need to feel a bait swimming.

I'm not trying to be a jerk but there are a lot of factors that could account for the reason you caught fish and your buddy didn't on one day. The first thing that comes to mind is luck. What are the chances that a coin toss comes up either heads 4 times in a row or tails 4 times in a row? It's 1 in 8 that you or your friend would have caught all 4 of the fish on that day. Your sample size is so small that even if you're right about the exact same presentation, it's not smart to come to any conclusion.

It's also possible that you think your presentation was the same as your friend's but it wasn't. The really successful guys on the water do many small things that might not be noticeable to most of us. Those small things add up to a big advantage.

A friend and I fished a kelp about 10 miles off LJ on my boat a couple weeks ago. We used the exact same set-up and bait. I caught 3 dorado and he caught none. I only tell this story to (a) brag on a kayak site that I have a boat, (b) rub it in your face that there are quality dorado just outside of kayak range, (c) find an excuse to tell you about fish I've caught and (d) to immediately contradict my coin toss example and tell everyone on the site that I have more skill than my friend who used the EXACT SAME SETUP and caught nothing.

It sounds like you had a great day at La Jolla and maybe you're reading into it a bit much. Just trying to be helpful and steer the OP away from what I consider misguided advice. If the guy finally puts the pieces together and gets slammed by that yellowtail he's been targeting, but loses it in the kelp, he's going to be rightfully bummed.

I won't beat a dead horse any longer.

I've been fishing this area since 2012 out of a kayak off and on. This year I was able to switch to a Hobie, the pedals are amazing I will never go back. Being able to cover twice as much ground in a day has the old yak, Ive definitely gotten better, marked more spots, and learned a lot. I can't wait to try this advise and hopefully land some big fish. I work in the motorcycle industry doing R&D and this is no different, you have to get out there and try things, figure out what works and what doesn't and keep plugging away until you figure it out. This forum has taught me so much about fishing and kayak setup. I appreciate all of your advise and I hope to post a report soon with my big fish. I'm also developing a large fish hold that should drop into the front of an outback, if it works out I will have them produced and you guys will be the first to know. That's my next hoop to jump through, what to do with the fish to keep it fresh instead of paddling in once you have one on the deck.

I'm just giving my experience, I have seen fish that wouldn't bite 25-30lb line but if you went down to 15-20lb you would get bite after bite. Fish have great eye seight. Also, feeling your bait get excited is not going to change the outcome. Either you get bit or you dont how is that going to help you get hooked up? lol The only one advantage you have is with the kelp and that's it.

loved this thread,thank you all for the lesson

You're a few steps behind and just don't realize it. No more free help from me.

You want to bring 15 lb for all those days when you've seen LJ yellows afraid bite 25 lb? Be my guest.

You haven't learned why it's important to have a good feel for your bait when flylining? Spend some time on the water and figure it out. Or just throw it in the rod holder and take a nap. Whatever works for you, buddy.

Give me an example how knowing that your bait is getting excited is going to help you get hooked up? Either they fish grabs it or doesn't right? It could be getting excited by seeing a sea dog, other mackeral, any number of things. I don't see how that is going to effect the outcome but whatever works for you bud. 😉

Wrong! Like I said, no more free help.

Thanks I need the help 😂😂😂
My 10 year old son catches more fish than you

😉😉😉😉😉😉

Some Fluoro and Spectra info - to The Pelican, keep advising
 

To the Pelican - Don't stop giving advice just because one person has an attitude. Others who keep quiet are listening, hopefully including the original poster on this thread. Just don't be quite so sarcastic to those who can't handle constructive advice and just ignore them. Not worth typing the extra characters.

As for Ultimatejay - "Thanks I need the help 😂😂😂
My 10 year old son catches more fish than you."

Real Mature - it's like listening to a hipster Bernie supporter talk to reactionary Trump fan - or vice-versa. No one wants to give you help since evidently your anecdotal evidence is all you need. His response was for the original poster so he could offer a different perspective than you did (a more accurate one at that).

I don't post or read the forums much anymore because frankly I don't like to fish in the zoos or elsewhere when a bite is announced, preferring to go to Baja and I no longer want to share too much about those spots. I've been kayak fishing for over 20 years and mostly was in LJ - was in the sport fishing business for 10 years prior to even getting into the Yak. There were so few of us then kayak fishing LJ that I would get lit up by Coast Guard and Police Helos to check on my safety when fishing WSB at night. They scattered the bait and blew the bite when they would turn the spot on me. For my 'bonafides' - I was the rep who brought fluoro (Seguar) and Spectra (Power Pro) aggressively into the kayak market - sponsored Spike among others. I have posted similar explanations before in the distant past, but I guess it's time again. And I am no longer associated with any product in the fishing business - so I have no invested interest in my comments, just hoping to educate others.

The Pelican is right and you are scientifically wrong about mono vs. spectra w/fluoro top shot, specifically regarding visibility. Fluoro gets bit over mono for a simple reason, it doesn't reflect and refract light like mono - some mono almost looks like an LED in certain light/water conditions. If you are using poorer quality or fluoro blended lines, that may not be as true. Spectra is opaque, not allowing any light to travel down and is usually less visible than the best mono looking from below. This is the main reason fluoro was invented - as a high density, ultra-clear, non-reflective coating for certain aircraft equipment that needed to be distortion free. They then discovered its application as a fishing line. Fluoro should also be much closer to the density of water and spectras are so much thinner than mono that the bait also acts more naturally since there is less drag. An as eluded to, the lack of stretch in Spectra does provide better sensitivity.

However, there can exist water conditions where the mono is nearly as invisible as fluoro and it's larger diameter and stretchiness might just sync up to provide a better overall presentation on a specific day. That could have been the case on the day you cited. I often like how a 6X JR sinks slower in lighter currents with the extra drag from mono, vs the faster sink rate w/Spectra. Mono is also easier to cast for some - specially w/older gear. The reason the Tranx was created was for Shimano to make it easier to cast a Surface Iron using Power Pro once they bought the company. The biggest reasons for the original resistance to Spectra w/short fluoro was the tendency for Spectra to cut off others on sport boats and fish to come unbuttoned or break off the leader when they were at shallow color. The later caused fishing equipment and techniques that didn't match - stronger drags on high speed reels, ex-fast graphite rods, and no stretch Spectra combined to eliminate any forgiveness. If a fish took a run as a swell lifted a boat - plus the anglers adrenaline kicks in at the end of the fight - 10 ft. of line would get pulled to 20 ft, and 20lbs of tension turned to 40lbs. in a few seconds - and something would have to give - usually one of the knots. But those issue don't exist on the kayak. You almost never here a talented/experienced skipper or crew claim that mono is as good or better than fluoro for visibility - but exactly the opposite.

My biggest issue w/Spectra on the yak is when using heavy Spectra and Fluoro and fishing bottom structure, if you get stuck deep, the yak just doesn't provide enough leverage to pop it free - and 100+ feet of Spectra is not something you want to leave in the ocean.

As a norcal lurker who's only experience catching YT was a one-time guided outing in 2011, and looking to head south again, your post had a lot of good tips. Thanks! As for hooks, any particular brand you recommend? Also, I see other posts using J hooks, circle hooks, etc. I guess it's preference, but was curious why others use certain hook, and why they think it's "better" for hooking the YT. thx again.

thanks for the tip. What hook recommendation do you have for this newbie? Thx again.

I agree with greenscales... Thank you for the help Pelican. I'm not on here to talk crap on anyone's ideas, I appreciate your honest advise. Most people do not share their tricks so I appreciate that.

Mike

First off, you must have not read any of my posts. I never asked for any help from this Pelican guy. Secondly I never was comparing mono to flouro- I said in my experiencecan get line shy with braid and I get more bites using mono backing with flouro leader vs braid backing and flouro leader.
Thirdly, no way your getting 25 mackerel in a kayak bait tank and have them live for very long unless they are 2"- Pelican is full of shit!
Fourthly, I was just giving my personal experience- didn't say it was better or worse just stating an observation in my experience. Then this Pelican prick comes along and thinks he's gods gift to fishing telling me " No more free help".
I never asked for help and I guarantee I have caught more fish then he will ever dream of. He didn't have to say that, all he had to say is that he hasn't had issues with bites using braid in his experience and then the people reading this thread can decifer what they want to use. If you're going to be an A-hole to me, I'm going to give it back.
There's no doubt in my mind and personal experience that sometimes fish can become very picky and line shy, especially LJ with all the fishing pressure there.
There's pro and cons to both set ups. Use what you have confidence in and works for you, but don't be single minded.
Peace out.

UltimateJay - sorry, but you started off the negativity: The Pelican was responding to Crashcrows request with very solid and detailed information w/o mentioning you at all, obviously putting some time and thought into it. You then questioned his authenticity by stating "25 green backs in a kayak bait tank?" He then explained handling the bait correctly made a huge difference to there health, w/a little snarky retort to you - and then it was on. In fact Saturday I had a mix of candy greenbacks (under 6") and jumbo sardines from Mission Bay- which are more fragile - started w/30 ended w/15 still healthy 8 hours later. And my tank pump was faltering at first. And I have done more bait for longer periods as well. So don't question others if you do not want them to question you. Now you are calling him "a prick" and he "is full of shit." Am I a liar as well because I am agreeing that you can keep 25 pieces of bait alive for a day when properly handled and in the right tank? My original title was going to be "Chill out you two." So his comments about no more education is understood since - I presume like me - he doesn't want to be given a bunch of negativity for providing information. And I presume you do not either.

Afterwards the conversation erupted, with personal quips on both sides, surrounding the Spectra and Fluoro. I am just putting my 2 cents in education on the materials because you stated the Yellowtail were onto braid and I have industry based knowledge - I also was a manufacture rep for co-polymers as well. I am no longer as knowledgeable on LJ as before since I do not spend as much time on the water others do. However I will not trash another persons legitimacy as a fisherman, which you continue to about you and your kid catching more fish than Pelican. Maybe its true, but do you have evidence, and even if not, please keep it civil. Just like I suggested to Pelican not to be so sarcastic. Again - like watching politics: some 20 year old Emo claims the sky is falling and companies must be shuttered and we must all wear clothing made of hemp because it hit 100 in LA and it never had in his long life and then some 90 year old curmudgeon replies that it hit 120 when he was a kid and he is going to continue to burn his trash in his backyard and dump his bilge in the bay because its his right and he has seen no affect. The same reason I avoid FB, Twitter, Instagram, Tinder, or whatever way people who feel disaffected want to promote themselves.

Just like Pelican started out, my goal is to pass on information. My point of Flouro to Mono was visibility as a bridge to understand correlative properties of Spectra - which in fact has as many attributes of - correcting my wording - stealthiness (instead of invisibility) because of its thinness and doesn't transmit light like mono (or most co-polymers - which has primarily replaced monofilament). 50lb Power Pro w/30lb Seaguar Blue or Premier - rigged correctly - will fish bait more naturally than the always thicker and usually stiffer 40lb co-polymer and Fluoro in most current conditions and through kelp because the Spectra is thinner and less stiff.

I agree essentially with what both of you indicated - you will fish better with something you feel more confidence in. For instance - dropper loop fishing is way easier and less expensive with large mono top shot over just a short fluoro. And I am glad you are teaching your kid how to fish. Way better than all of my friends whose kids know nothing but trashing each other and being experts online about everything with no real experience about anything - such as environmentalists who have never been on the water but eat Sushi w/o a clue as to where it came from other than a branding of "dolphin free" (45% of seafood is mislabeled in restaurants). Then promote MLPAs in some of the most sustainable fisheries. Oops - time for me to shut up and to hit the water I think.

N.B. - I hope to see both of you next Saturday at the CCA craft beer and food festival at Portuguese Hall to support keeping them from trying again to close all of LaJolal to fisherman. We can toast to catching yellowtail verses just fishing for them or talking about it online. http://www.ccacalifornia.org/cca-cal...ent-save-date/

I never once said Pelicans advise was bad other than putting 25 mackerel in a bait tank. That will not work 100% positive. I have been collecting rare exotic fish in the Aquaria for over 36 years and you can't have that many large fish in a small tank and have them survive for any amount of time. The fish give off too much pollutants that tbe water turn over rate could never keep up with, not including the fish hitting each over. Pelican did give good detailed info- pretty much what I said before his post but let's quit the BS- there's no way your going to get 25 normal size mackerel in a bait tank and make them last all day or even 30 min. If you call that negativity then I guess you must be a liberal. lol

Then I guess I am liar as well since I have started with that many small macks in my Hobie tank numerous times and ended up with some left alive at the end. Mind you I am not keeping 25 all day, and they aren't stocked trout size, if that's what you mean my "normal size" talking under 6" when I have that many. If you see one start to falter, you toss it out, if not, then more will roll on you. The key is you have constant flow of water in and out, not O2 percolating in a closed environment - if that were my system, they would definitely roll. If the macks are big, then I keep a few a move on to look for smaller ones and will the large ones out. Bigger bait does not necessarily mean bigger fish, it just means your missing more bites, and you won't be wasting as much time with the smaller game fish. And chunking is always an option as well.